Another reason to fly yourself

Jose wrote in
:

Ummmm... have you flown first class recently?

Ummm, yeah. NY to SF. Champaigne, china, crystal, metal (though not
silver) utensils including knives, a meal that would rival many
restaurants, cloth napkins, twice as much room as coach, maybe more,
attentive stewards and stewardesses, fresh baked chocolate chip
cookies.

Jose

That's not first class. That's Midwest Express. They're an exception. And
at Midwest Express the entire plane is single class and gets the same
frills.

I've had a few 1st class upgrades (although they seem to get harder and
harder to get these days). Not all of them served meals on a 2 hour
flight, and a couple of them didn't even have metalware (they blamed
9/11). I wouldn't say the food rivals restauarants, but you typically
get a meal as opposed to having to pay for a snack box or paper bag
lunch with a soggy turkey sandwich. Breakable glass and China, perhaps, but
not always. Quite honestly, I'm not sure what the big hoopla is. The most
significant benefit of course is that I can feel comfortable like the Pig I
am when in 1st class, as opposed to feeling squished like a Cattle in the
back. But that is worth something to me.

I had a long conversation with a stewardess on a Northwest flight a while
back. She said they have to compete with the "No-Frills" airlines
who are taking away their market share. I said they would be smarter to
segment the market and let the No-Frills airlines have the low-budget,
no-service, no-room customers, and segment the market so they keep the
mid-range and higher-range customers who would be willing to pay a small
premium for more room and better service. I told her that basically her
airline, by choosing to compete directly against the no-frills airline is
quickly becoming a no-frills airline, and will surely declare bankruptcy.
In the meantime, they have twice as many seats on the plane than they did a
few years ago, and most of them are empty. If they halved the number of
seats on the plane, and charged 50% more, they would be able to include the
same size crew complement, probably fill a few more seats than they had
that day, but earn substantially more money.

The airlines all seem to think the only way to compete is on price. I
can't really complain too much, since I'm benefitting from their poor
marketing skills. But the fact is that there are many ways to compete,
and most of the airlines are just plain missing the boat (excuse the
pun).

Delta is one of a select few that now charges for same-day standby..
One other is ATA. It's a stupid policy that only serves to alienate the
customer - I now will spend the extra $50 with another carrier if given
the choice, since getting home a few hours early is always a desirable
action...

"Marty from Florida" marty@-x-x-x- remove -x-x- worth.net wrote in
:

I flew commercial from West Palm Beach to Kansas City MO a few months
ago. Got pulled aside for a random search, which was pretty stupid. I
could have knitted a knife with my hair and stabbed the person beside
me with it. The TSA is truly nuts, reflecting it's association with
the newly formed office of remarkably extreme paranoia (Homeland
Security). They need to really decide if a $ 450,000 Cirrus Sr-22 can
do as much damage as a $ 39.00/day Uhaul truck. I digress ...

All things considered, it took a huge amount of time messing around
with TSA nonsense, checking in and out, waiting in Atlanta for a 2.3
hour connection, etc. I could have walked there. I feel great sorrow
for today's airlines (what's left of them). The former arrogance of
large companies such as Eastern Airlines has certainly caught up with
American and Delta. They now treat their clients as mini cash-cows.
It's not pretty. I tried to get an earlier flight that was leaving in
minutes rather than the 2.3 hours and was told to pony up cash. What
a
way to treat a customer. The only reason I had to wait 2.3 hours is
because of Delta's schedule that put me on the plane.

Anything under 7 or 8 hundred miles and I'll just fly myself. Better
food, much more fun, quicker when you add up all the time wasting.
Marty from Rainy Palm Beach Florida


wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning wrote:
: Right. There are lots of good reasons to fly yourself, but cost
: isn't one of them. Not by a long shot.

As far as *direct* operating costs, it's usually cheaper to fly
yourself
if
it's within 500nm. You know... about the same range as it's
potentially
feasible to
drive...

The indirect expenses and easily ignored as the fixed expenses of
the
"hobby."
Heh...

-Cory

--


************************************************** ********************
*** * Cory Papenfuss
* * Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student
* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
*

************************************************** ********************
***

Morgans wrote:
"Jay Honeck" wrote

I'm not sure I'd lump "People's Express" and "Piedmont" under the banner
of
"Great Airlines."

Piedmont, while not far reaching, and not large, had some of the best
service, most reliable and comfortable in this area of the US. Many cried
when it was snapped up by useless air.

yes, Piedmont was one of the best airlines flying before they were
assimilated into the USAir borg.

But they were primarily in the Southeast, and there is now a regional
airline with that name, which may have thrown Jay off. The only real
remainder of the old Piedmont, besides the part that's now in USAir,
is a string of Piedmont FBOs in the southeast. They are also directly
descended from Piedmont airlines.

Here ya go, Judah -- let ol' Doug know just how he and the boys on the
top floor are "missing the boat." Maybe there'll be a lucrative VP slot
in it for you.


Douglas M. Steenland
President and Chief Executive Officer
Northwest Airlines, Inc.
7500 Airline Drive
Minneapolis, MN 55450
-----------------------


Judah wrote:

I had a long conversation with a stewardess on a Northwest flight a while
back. She said they have to compete with the "No-Frills" airlines
who are taking away their market share. I said they would be smarter to
segment the market and let the No-Frills airlines have the low-budget,
no-service, no-room customers, and segment the market so they keep the
mid-range and higher-range customers who would be willing to pay a small
premium for more room and better service. I told her that basically her
airline, by choosing to compete directly against the no-frills airline is
quickly becoming a no-frills airline, and will surely declare bankruptcy.
In the meantime, they have twice as many seats on the plane than they did a
few years ago, and most of them are empty. If they halved the number of
seats on the plane, and charged 50% more, they would be able to include the
same size crew complement, probably fill a few more seats than they had
that day, but earn substantially more money.

The airlines all seem to think the only way to compete is on price. I
can't really complain too much, since I'm benefitting from their poor
marketing skills. But the fact is that there are many ways to compete,
and most of the airlines are just plain missing the boat (excuse the
pun).

That's not first class. That's Midwest Express.

Actually it was business class on United. Or was it American. I forget.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On 15 Dec 2005 06:29:51 -0800, "Paul kgyy"
wrote:

"American Eagle said Thursday it will charge $1 each for a can of soda
and a bag of cashews on flights into and out of Los Angeles next month."

That's cheaper than most sporting events.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 17:02:20 GMT, Jose
wrote:

Well said Jay, a lot of us have been there and done that back in the days
that commercial flying was a sheer pleasure.

It still can be, if you fly first class and pony up what it costs. Most
of us can't afford to do that. Bring back the "good old days" and you'd
have the good old choice - first class or nothing. Now we have another
alternative.

I guess I'd have to disagree on that one.
Other than a comfortable chair and having leg room the last dinner I
had served had green fuzz growing on it. True, I didn't have to pay
extra for the drinks, but I'd rather stay conscious and watch the
scenery.

The last commuter I road on er...in was a *box* with windows. Not
even a head. I was up front and near the props. I have never ridden
in such a noisy airplane. My Deb is quiet without the headsets
compared to that thing.

The last "cattle car" ride was coach in a 737 on a very rough day.
Almost every seat was full. They served breakfast and hit the jet
stream interfaces as they were cleaning up. THEN they really started
to clean up. I think there were only about 10 of us on the plane not
counting crew who didn't get sick.

No, that wasn't the last cattle car ride as the company had me
traveling a bit before I retired, but I sure don't miss it a bit.

Oh the joys of flying cattle care class. The room, the service, the
sounds, the smells... er... DAMN I'll swear I just caught a whiff of
that thing.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Jose

Jose wrote in news:EPppf.4095$fO5.3265
@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com:

That's not first class. That's Midwest Express.

Actually it was business class on United. Or was it American. I forget.

Jose

I'm impressed. I didn't think anyone but Midwest Express offered the fresh
baked cookies...

I upgraded to 1st class on an America West trip from NY to Reno this past
week (with 1 stop each way). Interestingly enough, I was fairly impressed
by one of the legs - from NY to Phoenix. The service was excellent, and the
breakfast, while not extraordinary in terms of food quality was at least
unique and "special" compared to "buy an egg in a box" meals they were
offerring to coach class. Warm pancakes with strawberry sauce and whipped
cream...

The short hops (2hrs) had no special service worth mentioning. They didn't
even give away headphones. Just wider seats. Admittedly, the extra space is
comfortable.

The long trips both offered glass and metalware (though knives were plastic
- thank goodness they didn't give us steak!) And one attendant for 16
people instead of two attendants for 150, making for pretty constant drink
refills. But on the return trip, the meal was basically the same sandwich
in a box that they offer in coach, except on a plate and without the $5
fee... Oh, and they were "out of the chicken".

No fresh-baked goods or lobster tails were offered.