Showing metal at 1,100 hours

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
...
Kyle Boatright wrote:

Since you let the aircraft sit for 60 days, is it possible (likely?)
that the metal you are seeing is simply the layer of rust that formed on
your cylinder bores?

Possible? I certainly hope so. Likely? I don't know. Does anyone
doing regular oil analysis see this when their a/c sits idle for 60 days?

Rust might end up in the oil analysis, but I don't see how some surface rust
from the bores would end up as metal shavings in the filter. (If I recall
correctly, that's what you found, right?) :-(

Does a Maule come with a Tost or Schweizer hook as an option? (And I don't
mean on the tail end...)
;-)

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
newsaednVG8H6AWKTjenZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...

Does a Maule come with a Tost or Schweizer hook as an option? (And I don't
mean on the tail end...)

You could always tow it backwards. It worked for the Wright brothers.

Vaughn

I had an mystery oil leak as well. It took me several weeks and wash downs
to find it.
Big snip
I replaced it with a remote filter housing....

Well, I've already got one of those...

I'm having my A&P change the oil and install new iridium plugs this week --
and I've already asked him to go on a LIMITED "fishing expedition" in search
of the oil leak. If he hasn't found the source after 2 hours, we're calling
it off, and I'll just live with it...

Thanks for the ideas!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
The thing that irks me when I get in this situation (like a cylinder that
might be going South) is that I cannot FLY the thing anywhere with
confidence except a local hop. Until the problem is resolved, the plane is
"down" as far as I'm concerned. No freedom to take a 400 mile jaunt
whenever I want is as good as no plane at all. Worse, in fact. I have a
potential financial liability simmering on the ramp that I cannot use.

Well put, Mike.

This is an aspect of ownership that is not often discussed. Nagging little
problems that, as a renter, don't even enter you mind, become HUGE deals as
an owner.


Thanks for providing that perspective for us non-owners enviously
looking on.

I had a vacuum failure in a club plane a couple of years ago. I was
VFR so I finished my flight home, squawked it, and that was it. Also
club planes go down for maintanence, engine changes, or fixes once in a
while, when they happens I fly a different one. My club has
volunteer maintanence nights that I attend when I can so I can be as
hands-on as I want to or can be. Still it would be nice to have my
own bird....

I guess the best of both worlds, if you could afford it, would be to
own a plane AND belong to a club so you have backup availability when
your baby is sick. We do have a few members like that.

I guess the best of both worlds, if you could afford it, would be to
own a plane AND belong to a club so you have backup availability when
your baby is sick. We do have a few members like that.

Actually, the best of all worlds would be to have a partnership of two
pilots (or sets of pilots, as in Mary and me), each bringing an
airplane to the table.

For example, I would LOVE to partner with someone that has a Decathlon.
When he wanted to haul four people and luggage, he would have access
to Atlas -- and when we wanted to rock and roll, we'd have access to
the Decathlon. It would be perfect.

Haven't found anyone around here that wants to do that...yet.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

From Jay (snipped)
This is an aspect of ownership that is not often discussed. Nagging
little
problems that, as a renter, don't even enter you mind, become HUGE deals
as
an owner.


Thanks for providing that perspective for us non-owners enviously
looking on.

Jay makes a great point. Before I became an owner, as an instructor I took
great pride in knowing the rental airplanes I flew inside and out. I knew
the AD's, the inspection dates, the squawks, and how the owner and
maintenance people took care of them. It gave me great insight into what it
took to be legal, what it took to "get by", what could wait, and what would
never get fixed no matter how much we bitched.

I think one of the greatest things about owning is that you become very
intimate with your airplane. You go through all the same decisions about
when, how, and whether to fix, replace, or repair something, but they are
YOUR decisions, not somebody else's, you control the entire process,
although sometimes your options become limited. You also know what your
budget is, which like other owners, will contribute greatly to your decision
making process. You get to really know your airplane. You also get to make
money saving "investments" when you repair or replace certain things. If
you know "doing it better" will cost you a little more now but save you a
lot more later, (and you can afford it) it becomes an easy decision.

Case in point: The exhaust systems on Aztecs run very low, very hot, and
very close to the fiberglass cowls. Too much heat will destroy the cowls.
When our exhaust systems needed to be replaced, a very smart previous owner
had them fabricated a few inches shorter to provide more clearance between
them and the cowl. Didn't cost any more money, labor to remove and replace
would be the same, but he preserved the fiberglass nose bowls which are
$2400 new unpainted EACH!

So... some repairs, done properly and smartly, will save you money in the
long run. Unfortunately a point often forgotten on rental planes.

The next time your rental or club plane comes back from a squawk repair,
take a look at the logs, take the time to talk to the A&P, and ask for some
details about the problem and the fix. You may be presently surprised or
amazingly shocked.

Another thing about owning is that you can, if you take the time, develop a
very close relationship with your maintenance shop. This will pay HUGE
dividends. They will be more willing to call you up in the middle of a
project and tell you about other little things that you may want to take
care of while they have the airplane torn apart. Much cheaper than
repeating the same labor requirements for a new problem at a latter date.
They may also let you look over their shoulder and help with some of the
projects. I would insist on this type of arrangement. Even if you don't
save any money on labor, what you learn will become invaluable down the
road. Ask your club or FBO if you can help out with 100hr inspections, oil
changes, annual inspections, or other maintenance. You may be able to trade
some sweat equity for some flight hours, either way, you'll be a smarter
pilot and well on your way towards ownership.

Jim

My call - (not an A&P but a mech engr). That it keeps producing metal
(really how much though) makes me wonder.

I can't imagine this to be simple cylinder corrosion products. It all
depends on what you find, but it sure sounds to me like a cam failure.
The next question is why, on a nearly new engine.

Maybe you could get by with just removing the four rocker box covers &
see if the valve travels are still equal using a dial indicator.

If they are equal travel, it could be an oil pump or other accessory
gear.

If they are not equal, that would suggest a good choice and location to
remove a cylinder & look at that cam lobe system. Two of the cam lobes
are doubled up so that they each drive two intake valves on opposite
sides of the engine. These might be the most likely cam lobes to
fail, with the failure probably initiating on the RH side if it is
cold-start related.

Another possibility is a scored cylinder. If it is from cold start
damage, it will probably be worse on the top right side of the engine.
You might be able to see this with a light thru the top spark plug hole
while looking thru the bottom hole. Do this in a dark area. Maybe
your mechanic has a borescope alternate.

Assuming this engine has a full flow filter (not just a screen), the
condition of a typical rod bearing could be determined after a cylinder
removal. If it has only a screen, the bearings will almost certainly
be contaminated.

If there is camshaft or lifter debris embedded in the con rod big end
journal, I'd want to stop any further operation in hopes of at least
saving the crankshaft from further damage. Any camshaft wear debris is
going to be very hard & just might have the potential of scratching the
nitrided crankshaft. If any cam lobe is worn down, it isn't going to
heal itself - it's just going to create more metal.

Let us know what you find.

nrp wrote:

The next question is why, on a nearly new engine.

I don't regard 1,100 hours as "nearly new."

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Correction to my earlier post - Cold start cam failure on any dual
follower lobes will probably initiate on the LH side due to oil spray
patterns in the crankcase.

On the 1100 TT point by George P - I was thinking that the cam was at
least not a second run one, in which case it would be a premature
failure.

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
Rust might end up in the oil analysis, but I don't see how some
surface rust
from the bores would end up as metal shavings in the filter. (If I recall
correctly, that's what you found, right?) :-(

We have fine metal partices - where from we don't know. How surface
rust from the bores would appear in the filter? I don't know. What
would you expect to see in such a situation?

Does a Maule come with a Tost or Schweizer hook as an option? (And I don't
mean on the tail end...)
;-)
No hook but it has such a attention getting glide ratio that I think
I'll wait to get the vibrator fixed. Actually I do have some 2-22 time....