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$1 billion BMS Ooops...



 
 
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  #171  
Old April 3rd 21, 08:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,385
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 5:35:53 AM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 12:40:11 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 4:25:19 PM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:30:14 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 1:55:30 PM UTC-8, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
A hybrid system with a gas engine wouldn't have the pucker factor associated with starting a
gas powered motorglider to avoid a landing: if the hybrid engine doesn't start, it just means
your potential retrieve distance is shorter, instead of an imminent landing.
I'll wade in here with some experience. Top Flight, a Boston startup specializing in hybrid propulsion systems, spend over half a decade developing their power unit. The hardest part for them was developing a unit which was reliable. Motors don't like vibration and they don't like heat. Combine the two together and the motor is not long for this world. It took a lot more R&D than anyone expected to make a lightweight package which could survive.

I would not expect anyone to be deploying this technology anytime soon. If and when it is commercialized, it will be useful for ferry flights of electric aircraft. For any use which requires permanent installation, you're probably better having it drive the propeller directly.

eGliders, I sense a tone here which is reminiscent of discussions about finally putting the 2-33 to rest. The US is no longer the forefront of light aviation, so we need to look east to see what the trends are. We know that leading glider manufacturers are racing to bring eGliders to market. A gentleman who works on glider competition rules noted this summer that glider records are falling left and right to eGliders. There is a growing group of amateurs who are pulling their engines out of their gas self-launchers and replacing them with electric (If you'd like to be a part of this group, DM me). The future was yesterday, but like any future it doesn't arrive at all places at once.

Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.

Tom
i missed the comment above but will name one who has replaced ICE with electric. That would be me. My ASW-24E(L) has been flying for over a year and has done the first self launch.
UH

And you missed my reply to whomever pointed that out. Basically, you did it to achieve self-launch capability and the effort involved was not worth it.

It was worth it to me. My objective was(is) a self launching sailplane of practical size and weight for regular assembly and disassembly that I can fly when I don't have a towplane available. This may not meet your needs or objectives. It has been an interesting and challenging project, not without setbacks. A good project for a retired engineer and sailplane modifier that wanted something interesting to do. You seem to think that something that does not meet your needs is not worthwhile. An open mind that sees that there are many valid points of view is a good thing.
That said, I'm not suggesting that others that don't have my experience, time, and resources try do do the same thing.
How hard could it be?
UH


I'm not suggesting anything - I raised the question of who had done this conversion when it was implied that several had done it because electric is so superior to ICE. Your final conclusion was that it is easier to buy an electric glider than to make this conversion (which I don't find surprising). Congratulations on successfully completing the project.

How hard could it be? A LOT DAMN HARDER than you think when beginning the project. And when you are done you have a one-of-a-kind glider that will be more difficult to sell than a production model.

Tom
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  #172  
Old April 5th 21, 04:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Herbert kilian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 2:21:58 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 5:35:53 AM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 12:40:11 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 4:25:19 PM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:30:14 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 1:55:30 PM UTC-8, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
A hybrid system with a gas engine wouldn't have the pucker factor associated with starting a
gas powered motorglider to avoid a landing: if the hybrid engine doesn't start, it just means
your potential retrieve distance is shorter, instead of an imminent landing.
I'll wade in here with some experience. Top Flight, a Boston startup specializing in hybrid propulsion systems, spend over half a decade developing their power unit. The hardest part for them was developing a unit which was reliable. Motors don't like vibration and they don't like heat. Combine the two together and the motor is not long for this world. It took a lot more R&D than anyone expected to make a lightweight package which could survive.

I would not expect anyone to be deploying this technology anytime soon. If and when it is commercialized, it will be useful for ferry flights of electric aircraft. For any use which requires permanent installation, you're probably better having it drive the propeller directly.

eGliders, I sense a tone here which is reminiscent of discussions about finally putting the 2-33 to rest. The US is no longer the forefront of light aviation, so we need to look east to see what the trends are.. We know that leading glider manufacturers are racing to bring eGliders to market. A gentleman who works on glider competition rules noted this summer that glider records are falling left and right to eGliders. There is a growing group of amateurs who are pulling their engines out of their gas self-launchers and replacing them with electric (If you'd like to be a part of this group, DM me). The future was yesterday, but like any future it doesn't arrive at all places at once.

Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.

Tom
i missed the comment above but will name one who has replaced ICE with electric. That would be me. My ASW-24E(L) has been flying for over a year and has done the first self launch.
UH
And you missed my reply to whomever pointed that out. Basically, you did it to achieve self-launch capability and the effort involved was not worth it.

It was worth it to me. My objective was(is) a self launching sailplane of practical size and weight for regular assembly and disassembly that I can fly when I don't have a towplane available. This may not meet your needs or objectives. It has been an interesting and challenging project, not without setbacks. A good project for a retired engineer and sailplane modifier that wanted something interesting to do. You seem to think that something that does not meet your needs is not worthwhile. An open mind that sees that there are many valid points of view is a good thing.
That said, I'm not suggesting that others that don't have my experience, time, and resources try do do the same thing.
How hard could it be?
UH

I'm not suggesting anything - I raised the question of who had done this conversion when it was implied that several had done it because electric is so superior to ICE. Your final conclusion was that it is easier to buy an electric glider than to make this conversion (which I don't find surprising). Congratulations on successfully completing the project.

How hard could it be? A LOT DAMN HARDER than you think when beginning the project. And when you are done you have a one-of-a-kind glider that will be more difficult to sell than a production model.

Tom

Tom, your negativity is sometimes hard to stomach. Please consider dialing it down, thank you. Please don't feel compelled to answer.
  #173  
Old April 6th 21, 05:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,385
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 8:33:04 AM UTC-7, Herbert Kilian wrote:
On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 2:21:58 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 5:35:53 AM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 12:40:11 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 4:25:19 PM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:30:14 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 1:55:30 PM UTC-8, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
A hybrid system with a gas engine wouldn't have the pucker factor associated with starting a
gas powered motorglider to avoid a landing: if the hybrid engine doesn't start, it just means
your potential retrieve distance is shorter, instead of an imminent landing.
I'll wade in here with some experience. Top Flight, a Boston startup specializing in hybrid propulsion systems, spend over half a decade developing their power unit. The hardest part for them was developing a unit which was reliable. Motors don't like vibration and they don't like heat.. Combine the two together and the motor is not long for this world. It took a lot more R&D than anyone expected to make a lightweight package which could survive.

I would not expect anyone to be deploying this technology anytime soon. If and when it is commercialized, it will be useful for ferry flights of electric aircraft. For any use which requires permanent installation, you're probably better having it drive the propeller directly.

eGliders, I sense a tone here which is reminiscent of discussions about finally putting the 2-33 to rest. The US is no longer the forefront of light aviation, so we need to look east to see what the trends are. We know that leading glider manufacturers are racing to bring eGliders to market. A gentleman who works on glider competition rules noted this summer that glider records are falling left and right to eGliders. There is a growing group of amateurs who are pulling their engines out of their gas self-launchers and replacing them with electric (If you'd like to be a part of this group, DM me). The future was yesterday, but like any future it doesn't arrive at all places at once.

Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.

Tom
i missed the comment above but will name one who has replaced ICE with electric. That would be me. My ASW-24E(L) has been flying for over a year and has done the first self launch.
UH
And you missed my reply to whomever pointed that out. Basically, you did it to achieve self-launch capability and the effort involved was not worth it.
It was worth it to me. My objective was(is) a self launching sailplane of practical size and weight for regular assembly and disassembly that I can fly when I don't have a towplane available. This may not meet your needs or objectives. It has been an interesting and challenging project, not without setbacks. A good project for a retired engineer and sailplane modifier that wanted something interesting to do. You seem to think that something that does not meet your needs is not worthwhile. An open mind that sees that there are many valid points of view is a good thing.
That said, I'm not suggesting that others that don't have my experience, time, and resources try do do the same thing.
How hard could it be?
UH

I'm not suggesting anything - I raised the question of who had done this conversion when it was implied that several had done it because electric is so superior to ICE. Your final conclusion was that it is easier to buy an electric glider than to make this conversion (which I don't find surprising). Congratulations on successfully completing the project.

How hard could it be? A LOT DAMN HARDER than you think when beginning the project. And when you are done you have a one-of-a-kind glider that will be more difficult to sell than a production model.

Tom

Tom, your negativity is sometimes hard to stomach. Please consider dialing it down, thank you. Please don't feel compelled to answer.


Herb, I call em like I see em - sometimes that's negative. I guess you missed my post about the wonderful WW2 story.
 




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