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Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20



 
 
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  #61  
Old October 13th 06, 02:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Rick[_1_]
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Posts: 24
Default Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote in message ...
[snip]

As an aside, I saw a women being interviewed who said she saw smoke *above*

the
plane right before the collision. Do you suppose they tried to deploy the

chute
and the smoke she saw was the rocket firing?


Could be:

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?...UVFeXkzJmZnYmV
sN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk3MDA0MzgxJnlyaXJ5N2Y3MTdmN3ZxZWVFR Xl5Mg==
(excuse the hideous URL)
....
Hersman said at the late night news conference that the charge that deploys
the parachute had fired, but that the parachute remained in a "packed
position."
**********************

Of course, eyewitnesses aren't always reliable, and the charges could have
gone off on impact (just guessing).

- Rick


  #62  
Old October 13th 06, 04:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
RK Henry
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Posts: 83
Default Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:28:47 -0400, "Bob Chilcoat"
wrote:

I've flown the Hudson corridor many times. Piece of cake if you keep your
eyes open, listen (and talk) on the radio, and the fan keeps running (you'll
get wet real fast if it stops). The East river's a different animal. Dead
end and narrow. I've never gone up it because I'm not convinced that I
could turn (or would be willing to bank to the necessary angle) sharply
enough at low altitude to get out again. My first thought after hearing
that they were cruising on the river in a considerably faster airplane than
mine was "They went up the East river?!" Could they simply have run out of
room?


Can you slow down to make the turn? You could use some of the same
techniques they teach for handling granite box canyons to deal with
paper box canyons, couldn't you?
  #63  
Old October 13th 06, 10:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Thomas Borchert
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Posts: 1,749
Default Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20

Yes, you can tack on a parachute and charge more for the plane.


Oh, BS. The plane is extremely cost-efficient. The parachute was
installed and accepted by the FAA as a substitute for spin recovery
testing. That doesn't mean anything about conventional spin recovery.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #64  
Old October 13th 06, 10:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Thomas Borchert
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Posts: 1,749
Default Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20

Ben,

the Cirrus needed
standard spin certification in Europe,


Yes, and as far as I know, the standard recovery tests were made for
that. But I'm not quite sure.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #65  
Old October 13th 06, 11:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gary Drescher
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Posts: 252
Default Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20

"RK Henry" wrote in message
...
Can you slow down to make the turn? You could use some of the same
techniques they teach for handling granite box canyons to deal with
paper box canyons, couldn't you?


Yup, they could've flown more slowly. But their radar track say they were
doing 97 knots:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/13/ny...ewanted=2&_r=1 .

--Gary


  #66  
Old October 13th 06, 12:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
B A R R Y[_1_]
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Posts: 178
Default Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20

Bob Chilcoat wrote:
My first thought after hearing
that they were cruising on the river in a considerably faster airplane than
mine was "They went up the East river?!" Could they simply have run out of
room?


Now that I've learned that the instructor was not an NYC metro area
instructor, things start to make sense. A rough theory:

- Yankee flies instructor out to fly back to CA with him.
- Instructor has never seen NYC from the air
- 88 hour pilot takes foreign instructor for sightseeing flight before
heading west
- The pair go up the wrong river, possibly following one of the amphibs
that live up there.
- Rather than fessing up and asking for clearance through the LGA space,
they attempt impossible turn

When I first started to get true facts about the crash, I couldn't
believe a local instructor would allow them to be there in the first
place, so I suspected a mechanical problem. A new pilot and an
unfamiliar instructor changes a bunch of things.
  #67  
Old October 13th 06, 01:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gary Drescher
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Posts: 252
Default Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
om...
Now that I've learned that the instructor was not an NYC metro area
instructor, things start to make sense. A rough theory:

- Yankee flies instructor out to fly back to CA with him.
- Instructor has never seen NYC from the air
- 88 hour pilot takes foreign instructor for sightseeing flight before
heading west
- The pair go up the wrong river, possibly following one of the amphibs
that live up there.


I don't think so. Lidle had reportedly flown the East River corridor
previously. I've flown past the southern tip of Manhattan many times, and I
can attest that no one could fly up the East river by accident, even if
they'd never been to NYC before. Unlike with some terrain, everything there
is immediately identifiable by a cursory glance; looking out the window
there is like looking at a map.

- Rather than fessing up and asking for clearance through the LGA space,
they attempt impossible turn


The turn isn't remotely impossible. It's a routine maneuver. It just needs
to be planned and executed properly.

Their radar track suggests that they made the standard trek to the end of
the corridor and then attempted the standard U-turn.

--Gary


  #68  
Old October 13th 06, 01:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Peter R.
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Posts: 1,045
Default Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20

B A R R Y wrote:

- The pair go up the wrong river, possibly following one of the amphibs
that live up there.


Your first two points make sense, but IMO this is where your theory falls
apart. I highly doubt they accidentally went up the East River, given that
it is a legal VFR corridor and given that it is very apparent when flying
over NY harbor where Manhattan is and how the rivers surround the island.
Instead, I speculate that they purposely went up the East River to enjoy
the view from that side.

- Rather than fessing up and asking for clearance through the LGA space,
they attempt impossible turn


Most sight-seeing VFR traffic flying up the East River turn around and exit
back to the south. The turn is not an impossible turn, if given some
planning.

--
Peter
  #69  
Old October 13th 06, 02:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
B A R R Y[_1_]
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Posts: 178
Default Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20

Gary Drescher wrote:


I don't think so. Lidle had reportedly flown the East River corridor
previously. I've flown past the southern tip of Manhattan many times, and I
can attest that no one could fly up the East river by accident, even if
they'd never been to NYC before.

-----

The turn isn't remotely impossible. It's a routine maneuver. It just needs
to be planned and executed properly.


I'll take both of responding poster's words for it.

I was basing those two comments on a seminar on the VFR corridor I took
at an FAA SafetyFest. The presenter paints the turn as very difficult,
and stated airplanes do accidentally end up in a difficult situation.
Maybe he's referring to somewhere else, further up the East River?

I've only flown the Hudson parts, and agree that the Hudson / East
intersection is unique looking. I haven't been up the East at less than
5,500. G
  #70  
Old October 13th 06, 02:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gary Drescher
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Posts: 252
Default Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
m...
I was basing those two comments on a seminar on the VFR corridor I took at
an FAA SafetyFest. The presenter paints the turn as very difficult, and
stated airplanes do accidentally end up in a difficult situation.


I agree that the East River is unusually challenging (due to its narrowness,
the dead end, the high density of traffic, the required low altitude, and
the nearby skyscrapers). That's why I've never bothered with it myself. And
I agree that an unprepared pilot could accidentally wind up in difficulty
there. It's just hard to imagine that flying up the East River in the first
place could occur accidentally; you really can't mistake it for the Hudson.

--Gary


 




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