Aviation Medical "Fraud"

On Mar 27, 4:12 pm, Jim Stewart wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:44:39 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote in :

They compared SSN disability recipents with
pilot's licenses. A few naughty individuals
had disabilities that would prevent them from
truthfully obtaining a valid medical, yet they
had one.

Does the article happen to mention how many airmen filed disability
insurance claims before seeking FAA medical certificates? Of does it
fail to differentiate between those and those airmen who became
disabled subsequent to their medical examinations?

I wasn't aware that medical disability information was a matter of
public record; interesting.

Who said it was? There's nothing to stop two
federal agencies from comparing databases, as
long as they don't disclose the information in
the databases to the public.

Well Clinton ordered agencies from sharing information.

-Robert

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:44:39 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote in :


They compared SSN disability recipents with
pilot's licenses. A few naughty individuals
had disabilities that would prevent them from
truthfully obtaining a valid medical, yet they
had one.

Does it say how many instances of this they found as a percentage of
total current airman certificate holders?

Longer version same story...
_____________________
On Tuesday, House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman James
L. Oberstar, D-Minn., on Tuesday released a committee oversight report that
identifies "widespread fraud" among pilots who hide serious medical
conditions from examining physicians to retain medical certification for
their FAA pilot certificates. The report notes that "in July 2005, the DOT
Inspector General found 'egregious cases' of airmen lying about debilitating
medical conditions on their applications" for FAA medicals. The DOT watchdog
sampled 40,000 airman's records and found more than 3,200 held current
medical certificates while simultaneously receiving Social Security
benefits, some for medically disabling conditions. Forty people were
prosecuted, but the committee's oversight and investigations staff believe
hundreds more could have been pursued if not for limited resources. Further,
the research team found "toxicology evidence" of serious medical conditions
in nearly 10 percent of all pilots involved in fatal accidents during a
10-year period, though less than 10 percent of these medical conditions were
disclosed to the FAA. "Despite these findings, FAA managers argue that the
problem of airmen falsifying medical applications is negligible," the report
notes. Committee staff concludes that the FAA's response is unacceptable and
reiterates the DOT IG's previous recommendation that the agency "coordinate
with Social Security and other providers of medical disability to identify
individuals whose documented medical conditions are inconsistent with sworn
statements made to the FAA." The committee researchers opine that this
action would create "incentive for airmen to be more forthcoming about their
existing medical conditions." Per FAR 67.403, "Falsification of the airman
medical application form 8500-8 may result in adverse action including fines
up to $250,000, imprisonment up to 5 years and revocation of medical and all
pilot certificates."
________________________________________


3200 out of a random 40,000 sample is about 8%. The story says that "some
for medically disabling conditions" so the actual percentage that had
medical problems that would not allow them to fly would be somewhere from 8%
down to 0.000001%. I think the much more interesting number is the 10% of
fatals included "toxicology evidence." What isn't said is if the "evidence"
in this 10% was all non-reported medical conditions. What they are talking
about I would assume is things like heart drugs that indicate a pilot with a
heart condition. But how many of that 10% had reported the condition and had
a waiver.

Like so many times it isn't what the news story says but what it doesn't
say.

What would be more relevant is any correlation between these
individuals and accidents.


On Mar 27, 6:44 pm, Jim Stewart wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:
How is it that airmen are able to hide their medical conditions from
the licensed medical doctor examining them, but not from Congress?

The article says, but I guess you'd like
someone to write you an executive summary (:

They compared SSN disability recipents with
pilot's licenses. A few naughty individuals
had disabilities that would prevent them from
truthfully obtaining a valid medical, yet they
had one.





-------------------------------------------------------------------
AVwebALERT News Alert -- March 27, 2007
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/11/840-full.htm

House Committee Probes Aviation Medical "Fraud" (http://www.avweb.com)
House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman James L.
Oberstar, D-Minn., today released a committee oversight report that
identifies widespread fraud among pilots who hide serious medical
conditions from examining physicians to retain medical certification
for their FAA pilot licenses.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And if you read the longer version I posted in response to Larry's post you
will see that there is.


Andrew Sarangan wrote:
What would be more relevant is any correlation between these
individuals and accidents.


On Mar 27, 6:44 pm, Jim Stewart wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:
How is it that airmen are able to hide their medical conditions from
the licensed medical doctor examining them, but not from Congress?

The article says, but I guess you'd like
someone to write you an executive summary (:

They compared SSN disability recipents with
pilot's licenses. A few naughty individuals
had disabilities that would prevent them from
truthfully obtaining a valid medical, yet they
had one.





-------------------------------------------------------------------
AVwebALERT News Alert -- March 27, 2007
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/11/840-full.htm

House Committee Probes Aviation Medical "Fraud"
(http://www.avweb.com) House Transportation and Infrastructure
Committee Chairman James L. Oberstar, D-Minn., today released a
committee oversight report that identifies widespread fraud among
pilots who hide serious medical conditions from examining
physicians to retain medical certification for their FAA pilot
licenses.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What would be more relevant is any correlation between these
individuals and accidents.


And if you read the longer version I posted in response to Larry's post
you
will see that there is.


I read it and saw that no real correlation was documented.

Another way of analyzing it is perhaps these pilots were fit to fly but were
not disabled. Is it possible that the error was not on their flight
physical but on their disablility evaluations.


"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:44:39 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote in :


They compared SSN disability recipents with
pilot's licenses. A few naughty individuals
had disabilities that would prevent them from
truthfully obtaining a valid medical, yet they
had one.

Does it say how many instances of this they found as a percentage of
total current airman certificate holders?

Longer version same story...
_____________________
On Tuesday, House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman
James
L. Oberstar, D-Minn., on Tuesday released a committee oversight report
that
identifies "widespread fraud" among pilots who hide serious medical
conditions from examining physicians to retain medical certification for
their FAA pilot certificates. The report notes that "in July 2005, the DOT
Inspector General found 'egregious cases' of airmen lying about
debilitating
medical conditions on their applications" for FAA medicals. The DOT
watchdog
sampled 40,000 airman's records and found more than 3,200 held current
medical certificates while simultaneously receiving Social Security
benefits, some for medically disabling conditions. Forty people were
prosecuted, but the committee's oversight and investigations staff believe
hundreds more could have been pursued if not for limited resources.
Further,
the research team found "toxicology evidence" of serious medical
conditions
in nearly 10 percent of all pilots involved in fatal accidents during a
10-year period, though less than 10 percent of these medical conditions
were
disclosed to the FAA. "Despite these findings, FAA managers argue that the
problem of airmen falsifying medical applications is negligible," the
report
notes. Committee staff concludes that the FAA's response is unacceptable
and
reiterates the DOT IG's previous recommendation that the agency
"coordinate
with Social Security and other providers of medical disability to identify
individuals whose documented medical conditions are inconsistent with
sworn
statements made to the FAA." The committee researchers opine that this
action would create "incentive for airmen to be more forthcoming about
their
existing medical conditions." Per FAR 67.403, "Falsification of the airman
medical application form 8500-8 may result in adverse action including
fines
up to $250,000, imprisonment up to 5 years and revocation of medical and
all
pilot certificates."
________________________________________


3200 out of a random 40,000 sample is about 8%. The story says that "some
for medically disabling conditions" so the actual percentage that had
medical problems that would not allow them to fly would be somewhere from
8%
down to 0.000001%. I think the much more interesting number is the 10% of
fatals included "toxicology evidence." What isn't said is if the
"evidence"
in this 10% was all non-reported medical conditions. What they are talking
about I would assume is things like heart drugs that indicate a pilot with
a
heart condition. But how many of that 10% had reported the condition and
had
a waiver.

Like so many times it isn't what the news story says but what it doesn't
say.

Howard Nelson writes:

Another way of analyzing it is perhaps these pilots were fit to fly but were
not disabled. Is it possible that the error was not on their flight
physical but on their disablility evaluations.

Or they may have been fit to fly and knew it, but had some condition that they
also knew would disqualify them.

I think relatively few pilots would take real risks, risks that might
incapacitate them in flight and cause them to die. But if they have
conditions that aren't really likely to incapacitate them, and they have a
great love of flying, I can see why some of them might yield to the temptation
to lie about it.

It's also interesting to note that some pilots with perfect first-class
medicals turn out to be in bad shape at autopsy. I recall one report about an
accident in which both pilots were killed, and at autopsy it turned out that
they had severe narrowing of coronary arteries (90% for one of the pilots).
But they had their medicals, and it wasn't the cardiovascular problems that
killed them.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Larry Dighera wrote:


How is it that airmen are able to hide their medical conditions from
the licensed medical doctor examining them, but not from Congress?




"I don't recall".....

--
Frank....H

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
news

How is it that airmen are able to hide their medical conditions from
the licensed medical doctor examining them, but not from Congress?

I read in my AOPA newsletter about this. It says about 40 people in
California are being procecuted for this. Anybody know what penalties these
guys are facing? I would think if you own your own plane, flying without a
medical might be lower risk than lying on the medical form. Can you go to
jail for flying without a medical? I think jail time for lying on the
medical is very possible.

Danny Deger




-------------------------------------------------------------------
AVwebALERT News Alert -- March 27, 2007
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/11/840-full.htm

House Committee Probes Aviation Medical "Fraud" (http://www.avweb.com)
House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman James L.
Oberstar, D-Minn., today released a committee oversight report that
identifies widespread fraud among pilots who hide serious medical
conditions from examining physicians to retain medical certification
for their FAA pilot licenses.

"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...

Anybody know what penalties these guys are facing? I would think if you
own your own plane, flying without a medical might be lower risk than
lying on the medical form. Can you go to jail for flying without a
medical? I think jail time for lying on the medical is very possible.


I have no idea what they can/will do for lying on the medical.

As far as I know, the worst they can do for flying without a medical is yank
your ticket.

I've heard flying without a ticket can earn you a trip to the big house too.