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#41
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Thrown out of an FBO...
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
This person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards a comment he did not agree with. People get kicked out from establishments for all kinds of reasons, due to political, health and religious choices and some even go as far as racial discrimination. Although I can understand your feelings, you should be glad that you have only encountered this once in your life. Just last month my wife got kicked out of a social club because of her choice not to get vaccinated. There was no logic or reason behind this, what it boils down to is intolerance towards different choices, and looking at everyone as 'with us' or 'against us'. Jay Honeck wrote: Decades ago, in my younger days (okay, waaaay younger), I was asked to leave a drinking establishment or two, and I've had a few women show me the door, over time...but I never thought I'd ever be asked to leave an FBO. To our amazement, it happened to Mary and me today. It all started pleasantly enough, with a brunch flight to a small town airport in North Central Iowa. The weather today was absolutely gorgeous, with temperatures in the 70s and smooth, calm air above a low haze layer. We called ahead to make sure the FBO had a courtesy car available, and within an hour we were on the ramp chatting with the line guy. Sadly, our favorite restaurant (we visit this little town a couple of times per year) had gone belly up after over 100 years of continuous operation, so we asked the FBO owner if he had any recommendations. A large man, our conversation made it clear that he had enjoyed the culinary delights from most (if not all) of the restaurants in his small town, and we made mental note of the ones he most recommended. He then jovially sent us on our merry way. After finding the recommended locally-owned greasy spoon restaurant (always our target!), we were soon enjoying a tasty, affordable lunch accompanied by rapid-fire repartee' from our blue-haired veteran waitress. We had a great time with her caustic, slightly off-color humor, and finished off with two pieces of her home-made coconut cream pie. We were soon waddling our way back to the courtesy van. As always, we made a bee-line for the nearest gas station, and topped off the tank. In my opinion, folks who use courtesy cars and don't add a little gas are abusing a very nice system, and we always want to do our part to make sure that the traditional "airport car" lives on. Minutes later we were back inside the FBO, fat, dumb, and looking forward to another great flight home. Walking through the lobby area, I called out to the owner (who was sitting at his desk behind the counter) and thanked him for a wonderful recommendation. He stood up and walked over to the counter to bid us farewell, we chatted about the restaurant we had visited, and I mentioned to him that we had "topped off the tank" for him in his van. He replied that we "Didn't have to do that...", but Mary remarked that we ALWAYS tried to fill the tanks, in thanks for the use of their car. I then mentioned that we, too, had a courtesy van at our hotel in Iowa City, and that I hadn't had to fill the tank in three years, thanks to the generosity of our pilot guests. He laughed and said that he "Had to fill the tank more often than that!", to which I laughingly replied "Yeah, the only time the tanks don't get filled at our place is when charter pilots use our van -- those guys are the cheapest SOBs around!" His face suddenly flushed red, and his tone abruptly changed. "Well, I'm a charter pilot, and I believe you're insulting me, now..." he growled in a quiet but somehow menacing voice. Still laughing, not sure if he was joking, too, but somewhat alarmed at his sudden change of tone, I replied in a conspiratorial way "Well, we all know *why* they don't fill the tanks -- they're not making diddly squat, and those kids can't afford to shell out too much cash..." This placated him not at all. He went on to tell me how he's got "Six charter pilots working for him, and they all make a good wage, and you shouldn't be making blanket statements insulting 'em that way..." Just like *that* the atmosphere in the office changed, and I was starting to get flustered at his sudden change of personality. Mary piped up and said that this was all "Just our observation of the way some charter pilots behaved...", and I replied that I was "Just joking around..." -- to which he snarled "Okay, 'John Kerry' -- maybe you folks shouldn't be coming around here and borrowing my car anymore..." I was dumb-founded -- he was kicking us out, and asking us not to come back! Mary (for the first time in a very long time) was speechless. I simply didn't know how to handle a situation that had gone from friendly to adversarial in the span of three sentences. My surprise quickly passed, though, and I was well on my way from flustered to incredulous, bordering on the angry. I just stared at him in disbelief, but Mary quickly filled the gap, stating in her best "Mom voice" that "Avoiding this place shouldn't be too hard." He asked me if the keys were in the van, to which I replied in the affirmative. He then turned on his heel and walked away, leaving us shaking our heads. Our day ruined, it was a quiet flight home, as we pondered what could make a guy snap like that over such inconsequential banter. The only thing we could think of us was that he was having a very, very bad day -- perhaps something had gone wrong with one of his charter pilots, or a charter job had fallen through? -- and our jokes tipped him over the edge. We'll never know -- and we'll never be back. It's a shame -- with all the problems facing GA, small-town airports simply can't afford to have FBOs driving off what little business they have (we were the only plane there) -- but for us there are literally hundreds of other airports to visit, so it won't matter much. But this day will always bother me, nonetheless. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" We have heard one side of this story. Jay Honeck may be the most credible person in the world, but the FBO guy may also have a side to this event. Just because you like Honeck, and hate FBO's like he seems to, doesn't mean Honeck is pearly white and above reproach here. Phil |
#42
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Thrown out of an FBO...
Steve Foley wrote: Would you like to hear my experience with privately owned hotels vs chains? Even if you did speak up, he would not eject you from his hotel. In fact, I suspect, you would probably still be welcome. Telling him to leave and not come back was disporportionat and extreme. Waaaay over the top. They fbo guy showed his real character. John |
#43
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Thrown out of an FBO...
Andrew Sarangan wrote: Just last month my wife got kicked out of a social club because of her choice not to get vaccinated. Won't they feel stupid when they eventually find out it was because last time she had such a severe reaction. At least that is why many people here give it a pass. John |
#44
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Thrown out of an FBO...
Peter Duniho wrote:
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message ups.com... This person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards a comment he did not agree with. Actually, the person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards an ignorant comment that he KNEW TO BE FALSE. [...] what it boils down to is intolerance towards different choices, and looking at everyone as 'with us' or 'against us'. This isn't about a "different choice". If I "choose", in a way different from other people, to call you an asshole, or I tell you that every person named "Andrew" that I've ever met was an idiot, and you react negatively toward that, is it because you are "displaying an overt intolerance"? No, it wouldn't be. It would be because *I* would be displaying an overt prejudice. But you seem to think that I have every right to not only believe something like that, but to tell it to your face, and expect you to NOT react negatively. Absurd. I am amazed at the number of people defending Jay's insulting behavior. I realize it's popular today to call any sort of consideration for other people's feelings "politically correct", but really...you guys seem to be making a sport out of the practice. It doesn't matter how polite or "genteel" a person is, being ignorant and prejudiced is still a bad thing. I've known plenty of well-mannered people who nevertheless didn't have a clue when it came to avoiding insulting stereotypes. Jay is one of them (and this isn't the first time we've seen him proving it). Pete What I am saying is that people should be able to express their opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from others. Some of these opinions could be wrong (and all of us are wrong one time or another), but if the other person reacts violently, then the person offering his opinion is only going to widthraw and harden his beliefs. Dialog and respect to other's opinion is the only way to overcome misinformation and improve understanding. If we start throwing people out or getting upset at the first sign of disagreement, we will never find a solution to our problems. Based on Jay's description, he made a comment which he thought was funny. He may have been insensitive, but I don't think he walked up to that guy with the intention of insulting him. The right thing for the FBO guy to do would be respond to Jay with common courtersy and straighten his misconceptions about corporate pilots. 'Throwing him out' only serves to harden the negative view Jay may have about corporate pilots. It does nothing to improve relations. |
#45
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Thrown out of an FBO...
Peter Duniho wrote:
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message ups.com... This person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards a comment he did not agree with. Actually, the person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards an ignorant comment that he KNEW TO BE FALSE. [...] what it boils down to is intolerance towards different choices, and looking at everyone as 'with us' or 'against us'. This isn't about a "different choice". If I "choose", in a way different from other people, to call you an asshole, or I tell you that every person named "Andrew" that I've ever met was an idiot, and you react negatively toward that, is it because you are "displaying an overt intolerance"? No, it wouldn't be. It would be because *I* would be displaying an overt prejudice. But you seem to think that I have every right to not only believe something like that, but to tell it to your face, and expect you to NOT react negatively. Absurd. I am amazed at the number of people defending Jay's insulting behavior. I realize it's popular today to call any sort of consideration for other people's feelings "politically correct", but really...you guys seem to be making a sport out of the practice. It doesn't matter how polite or "genteel" a person is, being ignorant and prejudiced is still a bad thing. I've known plenty of well-mannered people who nevertheless didn't have a clue when it came to avoiding insulting stereotypes. Jay is one of them (and this isn't the first time we've seen him proving it). Pete What I am saying is that people should be able to express their opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from others. Some of these opinions could be wrong (and all of us are wrong one time or another), but if the other person reacts violently, then the person offering his opinion is only going to widthraw and harden his beliefs. Dialog and respect to other's opinion is the only way to overcome misinformation and improve understanding. If we start throwing people out or getting upset at the first sign of disagreement, we will never find a solution to our problems. Based on Jay's description, he made a comment which he thought was funny. He may have been insensitive, but I don't think he walked up to that guy with the intention of insulting him. The right thing for the FBO guy to do would be respond to Jay with common courtersy and straighten his misconceptions about corporate pilots. 'Throwing him out' only serves to harden the negative view Jay may have about corporate pilots. It does nothing to improve relations. |
#46
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Thrown out of an FBO...
I remember Groucho saying: "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that
would have me for a member". |
#47
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Thrown out of an FBO...
Peter Duniho wrote: "Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message ups.com... This person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards a comment he did not agree with. Actually, the person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards an ignorant comment that he KNEW TO BE FALSE. He couldn't know it to be false. He was a sample of one. |
#48
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Thrown out of an FBO...
Peter Duniho wrote: being ignorant and prejudiced is still a bad thing. The truth is not prejudiced. |
#49
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Thrown out of an FBO...
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message ups.com... True, my comments were inappropriate given his position, and I regret them. However, aside from the obvious fact that you never, EVER speak with a customer the way he did, it is common knowledge that (a) most charter pilots NEVER fill the courtesy car, and (b) we all know they don't make diddly squat for salary -- which is why those of us who provide courtesy cars turn the other cheek and continue to let them borrow our cars. In other words, you made a joke as a customer to a peer based on your own experience. He reacted negatively, you tried to make the best of it, he called you a name (literally...the "Kerry" thing.) Unfortunately, I've known a couple of belligerent pinheads like that. They have anger management and security issues and, even when slightly offended they perceive that the manly thing to do is throw their weight around and verbally abuse people. Damned if I'd want a mentality like that in -my- cockpit. I knew an FBO owner in Baton Rouge who was similarly incapable of civil discourse at even the slightest disagreement. Sure, maybe you offended him. You didn't mean it. You tried to dilute the moment and he chose to storm off in a huff even after you paid him the monetary favor of filling his tank. It's not your problem. -c |
#50
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Thrown out of an FBO...
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message ... Jay Honeck wrote: We'll never know -- and we'll never be back. It's a shame -- with all the problems facing GA, small-town airports simply can't afford to have FBOs driving off what little business they have (we were the only plane there) -- but for us there are literally hundreds of other airports to visit, so it won't matter much. But this day will always bother me, nonetheless. As a former charter pilot, I didn't find your comments insulting or untrue. Maybe that guy spread the cash around, but I can guarantee my employer didn't. I have to agree. I too flew 135 for years, and quite frankly couldn't afford lunch, let alone gas. I didn't find your comments insulting or untrue. Your comment was simply an expression of your experience. You were not making general statements about charter pilots everywhere, just at your hotel. If he was really offended, maybe the shoe fit? Al G |
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