Potential Club Class (US Sports Class) World Team Selection Policy Changes

On Sep 18, 5:14*pm, Ray Jay wrote:
And a fine hello to you, too, Mr. Cochrane:

Irrespective of anyone's history of participation, this decision
smells just like yet another justification to the benefit of those
best equipped and consequently knees squarely in the nuts those who
worked so hard to get Club Class going in this country.

It isn't enough that 18m has its own lightly participated class in
which to go on to Worlds?
Expense isn't already enough a barrier to entry for you?
So now it's legit to encroach upon the opportunities of a lesser
performing class?

Hence, the resultant reactions to which both Mike and Chuck allude.

Regards,

Ray Cornay

There are number of good points being made here, but one I just can't
get is "the glider makes the winner" in a handicapped class. This is
the place where that argument carries the least weight

1. At the 2009 Sports Nationals, only 14 of 35 gliders were club class
eligible. Only 2 of the top 10 finishers were club class eligible.
2. At the 2010 Sports Nationals, only 15 of 42 gliders were club class
eligible. Only 2 of the top 10 finishers were club class eligible.

So many very good pilots are being excluded from the club competition
simply because of the glider they are flying. Most pilots cannot
afford more than one glider, and once they have saved mightily to get
their prized 27, 29 or whatever are not likely to sell it to get a
club ship. So many very good pilots are being excluded for what
amounts to financial reasons.

Our most experienced and accomplished team pilots generally agree that
whatever disadvantages exist if you compete in a club class ship after
winning in a say 27 or 29 are far outweighed by the smaller pool of
pilots from which the team can be drawn.

Now it may be true that handicaps need more work to keep the playing
field level, but I believe that the new approach moves us from
excluding some of our best pilots based on finances and becomes much
more inclusive.

It is really good that we are getting vigorous engagement on this with
4 months to go before the proposal goes before the SSA board for a
vote. We all want a fair and inclusive competition environment that
attracts increased participation and develops pilots that are
competitive at the worlds.

John Godfrey (QT)
US Rules Committee

On Sep 18, 4:45*am, "John Godfrey (QT)"
wrote:
* * * * * * * * The US Team Committee, in cooperation with the Rules
Committee and based on responses received through the on-line
competition survey conducted last year, has decided to recommend to
the SSA Board of Directors at its winter meeting that they approve
amendment to the Selection Policy for US Club Class Teams selected for
WGC participation starting in 2011.

* * * * * * * * 1) We will no longer restrict eligibility to pilots
who have not participated in a previous WGC event, i.e. all
participants in Sports Class Nationals flying eligible gliders will be
eligible

* * * * * * * * 2) We will broaden the list of gliders which may be
flown to generate eligible scores for Club Class selection in our
Sports Class Nationals. *It is anticipated that most Standard, 15
Meter, and 18 Meter gliders will be accommodated.

* * * * * * * * We are currently rewriting our Selection Policy to
reflect these changes and will publish the text in draft form as soon
as possible. A draft Eligible Glider List will be also be produced
incorporating these changes. If approved, our selection next fall for
the year two pilot for the 2012 WGC will be made on this basis.

* * * * * * * * These proposed changes do not affect selection of the
year one pilot - i.e. selected two years in advance of the 2012 Sports
Class WGC in Argentina, provided as currently required that the pilot
participates in the 2011 pre-World contest there.

* * * * * * * * Given that these changes are being proposed, we wanted
to disseminate the news *as early as possible so that interested
pilots could plan their 2011 competition schedules accordingly

For the Committee
DJ

1. I would encourage the committee to delay implementing the changes
until 2012 so those that have "played by the rules" are not impacted
two thirds of the way through a three year cycle.

2. If these are truly "proposed" and not already decided will there be
a comment period? Flying a true Club Class glider is very different
from flying a newer glider. I am talking about 38 to 1 Std, Cirrus,
LS-1, ASW 15, Std Jantar, etc. Also, the intent of the Club Class was
to provide an avenue for those that do not have the funds or desire to
spend $80,000 to $300,000 on a glider to be able to complete and
represent their country.

The last two sports class nationals have been won by ASG-29's, do we
all have to spend $150,000 to play the game? The club class was to be
the "common man's" class, the last place that you could not buy your
way on to the team with the latest glider. 2010 was ruled by span and
wing loading (ASG-29, Ventus 2cx, ASW-27's). Day five showed the
difference when the lowest handicapped finisher was a Discus flown
beautifully and persistently by Sarah Kelly, everything with a higher
handicap could not penetrate the winds to cross the desert.

3. When will we see the corrected scores from 2009 and 2010 with the
scoring errors fixed? While those years standings are "official"
those that flew the contest should been informed of how they should
have done and if those scores will count toward team selection. A
fundamental error in the scoring program is a something that almost no
one is going to catch in the midst of a contest.

Tim

On Sep 18, 4:45*am, "John Godfrey (QT)"
wrote:
* * * * * * * * The US Team Committee, in cooperation with the Rules
Committee and based on responses received through the on-line
competition survey conducted last year, has decided to recommend to
the SSA Board of Directors at its winter meeting that they approve
amendment to the Selection Policy for US Club Class Teams selected for
WGC participation starting in 2011.

* * * * * * * * 1) We will no longer restrict eligibility to pilots
who have not participated in a previous WGC event, i.e. all
participants in Sports Class Nationals flying eligible gliders will be
eligible

* * * * * * * * 2) We will broaden the list of gliders which may be
flown to generate eligible scores for Club Class selection in our
Sports Class Nationals. *It is anticipated that most Standard, 15
Meter, and 18 Meter gliders will be accommodated.

* * * * * * * * We are currently rewriting our Selection Policy to
reflect these changes and will publish the text in draft form as soon
as possible. A draft Eligible Glider List will be also be produced
incorporating these changes. If approved, our selection next fall for
the year two pilot for the 2012 WGC will be made on this basis.

* * * * * * * * These proposed changes do not affect selection of the
year one pilot - i.e. selected two years in advance of the 2012 Sports
Class WGC in Argentina, provided as currently required that the pilot
participates in the 2011 pre-World contest there.

* * * * * * * * Given that these changes are being proposed, we wanted
to disseminate the news *as early as possible so that interested
pilots could plan their 2011 competition schedules accordingly

For the Committee
DJ

1. I would encourage the committee to delay implementing the changes
until 2012 so those that have "played by the rules" are not impacted
two thirds of the way through a three year cycle.

2. If these are truly "proposed" and not already decided will there
be
a comment period? Flying a true Club Class glider is very different
from flying a newer glider. I am talking about 38 to 1 Std, Cirrus,
LS-1, ASW 15, Std Jantar, etc. Also, the intent of the Club Class
was
to provide an avenue for those that do not have the funds or desire
to
spend $80,000 to $300,000 on a glider to be able to complete and
represent their country.

The last two sports class nationals have been won by ASG-29's, do we
all have to spend $150,000 to play the game? The club class was to
be
the "common man's" class, the last place that you could not buy your
way on to the team with the latest glider. 2010 was ruled by span
and
wing loading (ASG-29, Ventus 2cx, ASW-27's). Day six showed the
difference when the lowest handicapped finisher was a Discus flown
beautifully and persistently by Sarah Kelly, everything with a higher
handicap could not penetrate the winds to cross the desert.

3. When will we see the corrected scores from 2009 and 2010 with the
scoring errors fixed? While those years standings are "official"
those that flew the contest should been informed of how they should
have done and if those scores will count toward team selection. A
fundamental error in the scoring program is a something that almost
no
one is going to catch in the midst of a contest.

Tim

On Sep 18, 9:22*am, Tim Taylor wrote:

*A fundamental error in the scoring program is a something that almost
no one is going to catch in the midst of a contest.

Tim

What error in the scoring program?

On Sep 18, 10:46*am, Andy wrote:
On Sep 18, 9:22*am, Tim Taylor wrote:

*A fundamental error in the scoring program is a something that almost
no one is going to catch in the midst of a contest.

Tim

What error in the scoring program?

I heard something about this a while ago. I hope the details will
come out now!

Andy (GY)

On Sep 18, 4:45*am, "John Godfrey (QT)"
wrote:
* * * * * * * * The US Team Committee, in cooperation with the Rules
Committee and based on responses received through the on-line
competition survey conducted last year, has decided to recommend to
the SSA Board of Directors at its winter meeting that they approve
amendment to the Selection Policy for US Club Class Teams selected for
WGC participation starting in 2011.

* * * * * * * * 1) We will no longer restrict eligibility to pilots
who have not participated in a previous WGC event, i.e. all
participants in Sports Class Nationals flying eligible gliders will be
eligible

* * * * * * * * 2) We will broaden the list of gliders which may be
flown to generate eligible scores for Club Class selection in our
Sports Class Nationals. *It is anticipated that most Standard, 15
Meter, and 18 Meter gliders will be accommodated.

* * * * * * * * We are currently rewriting our Selection Policy to
reflect these changes and will publish the text in draft form as soon
as possible. A draft Eligible Glider List will be also be produced
incorporating these changes. If approved, our selection next fall for
the year two pilot for the 2012 WGC will be made on this basis.

* * * * * * * * These proposed changes do not affect selection of the
year one pilot - i.e. selected two years in advance of the 2012 Sports
Class WGC in Argentina, provided as currently required that the pilot
participates in the 2011 pre-World contest there.

* * * * * * * * Given that these changes are being proposed, we wanted
to disseminate the news *as early as possible so that interested
pilots could plan their 2011 competition schedules accordingly

For the Committee
DJ

Can someone from the Rule Committee and/or the Team Selection
Committee please state what the objective for this rule change, who(m)
requested the change, and what alternatives and proposals were
discussed? Thanks Ron Gleason

What is the purpose for the suggested rules change?

I would hope the overall plan would be to send a team of American
pilots over to a WGC to fly in Club Class, and bring back trophies.
It's been a long time since that happened.

It seems to me y'all must be thinking our best pilots, the ones that
have a chance to bring back medals from the WGC, fly only the latest
designs out of Germany and South Africa and that great flying ability
will translate over to the Club Class glider.

What is the proof to this?

Seems like if the whole idea is to build an American team that will
win in Club Class, then I would think you need to start with pilots
dedicated to Club Class and build on them. I don't expect it to be
done in a year or two. It would be a long term process.

Or, maybe you're thinking about the financial side of the WGC. It
probably costs a lot of money to go to the WGC and maybe within the
contingent of club class pilots in America, there's none or very few
that have both the flying skills and the money to make it to the U.S.
Team and participate in a WGC and come home a winner.

Are we looking for pilots who: 1) Can afford to go to the WGC; and 2)
Have shown flying skills and the ability to win in the newest types of
gliders?

We need to see that American pilots can win at the WGC in Club Class.
Will these proposed rule changes move us towards that goal?

If so, please explain!

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA