NATCA Going Down in Flames

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 04:42:35 -0700, Jay Honeck wrote:

No, my position is an extension of my disgust with arrogant employees who,
while being paid handsomely, can't seem to keep their mouths shut and
their minds on the job.

No doubt their minds are less on their jobs with more "noise" coming from
the FAA. This is just a silly distraction.

I've been to several towers, CDW's most often. Would you like to know
what the controllers were wearing when I visited? I couldn't tell you.
Clothing makes that much of an impression.

[Though I expect I'd recall were they operating sans-clothing grin.]

On the other hand, the antiquated state of some gear at CDW was burned
into my brain.

- Andrew

Cigar, anyone?

"Montblack" wrote in message
...
("Emily" wrote)
Unions have nothing to do with government. A union levels the playing
field, which otherwise is skewed towards the employer.

But what's wrong with that? Granted, I have a great employer, but
employers aren't evil.


What's wrong with a boss grabbing some young thing's ta-ta's, in his
office,
in exchange for not firing her?

Start with the Homestead Strike and work your way up to... 'your boss is
not allowed to grab your ta-ta's, in exchange for not firing you.'

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carnegie/peopleevents/pande04.html


Montblack

Emily wrote:

How could you get away with flying VFR 100% of the time?
Easy. It is all I do. 300 hours last year so it must be doable

Ron Lee
Where do you live?

Colorado Springs CO. Actually fly out of 00V.

Ron Lee

Two things...first, I'm guessing that the airspace around Colorado
Springs is controlled, yes? So even if you go VFR, you still have to
talk to someone.

Nope. Don't have to talk to anyone unless I go into Class B, C, D
(control towered airports). I can fly OVER Denver Class B and not
talk to anyone. I do use traffic advisory services when over/near my
airport since commercial aircraft flying into COS are often LOWER than
my puttering around altitude.

Second, how the hell can you find 300 hours a year of VMC in Colorado?
We get that where I live now, but I wouldn't have been able to do that
in Indiana. Unless I was into scud running, which I'm not.

Visibility here would amaze you. 100 miles is not unusual. Here are
a few pics to give you an idea of the visibility:

http://tinyurl.com/kwbm6

The snow capped mountains in the distance at the right middle is
perhaps 50 sm away.

http://tinyurl.com/hnax9

Ron Lee

Yes, but it's a self-limiting problem. Here's the union mentality, and I
know for a fact it it true. Bad employee was constantly missing time. He
was told that he had to bring in a note from his doctor in order to get his
sick pay. He brought in a note that said "I have not treated Joe H... or
seen him professionally in the last six months." He said that satisfied the
requirement, since the company only told him to bring in a note from his
doctor. He ultimately was fired (for other similar reasons), years later,
and arbitrated his termination. The company bought him off. It cost a lot
of money, since it was virtually impossible to fire an employee and make it
stick through the grievance and arbitration process.

In another aviation-related event, an employee missed lots of time,
allegedly because of a chronic illness. Turned out he was not only a pilot,
but a CFI. He presented a diagnosis letter from a doctor which purported to
authorize the lost time. Termination was grieved, and appealed to
arbitration. We issued a subpoena for the logs of the employee/CFI. Turns
out the doctor (who was not licensed to practice in this state) was a
student pilot. We issued a subpoena for his logbook too. We also issued a
subpoena for the employee/CFI's medical application to see if he
"remembered" to list all the "treatment" from his "doctor". Funny how the
guy was sick only on VFR days. This guy was nailed good, and he just
disappeared. He didn't count on the fact the I would know what records he
and his students would have to keep, and what representations he would have
to make to the FAA. He also didn't count on the fact that I would know what
tyrants the FAA are, and that fooling around with the company could possibly
end his flying career. (The basis for the only subpoena I know of relating
to the 9/11 hijackers was for making a false statement on a medical
application by concealing a prior knee surgery. It wasn't much, but it got
the government through the front door.)

So, all of this is terribly labor-intensive (pun intended), and wasteful of
the company's resources. They closed the plant down last January, and
opened a non-union facility in the Midwest. The entire plant is out of
work, and on workers' compensation because they just happened to injure
themselves before the doors shut. They used to make $50-110k per year for
semi-skilled work not requiring a high school degree. They refuse to go
back to work because the only thing they can find pays $11- 12 per hour, so
they stay on comp and vocationaly rehabilitation for ever. But that pays
only a fraction of what they were making.

The union was constantly belligerent and obstructionist. When they got
there nose out of joint, we'd have dozens of grievances and OSHA complaints.
It was non-stop for years. Tell me how the union's conduct benefitted its
members.


"Jose" wrote in message
m...
Since then, [unions] have gotten very powerful. Arguably too powerful.
Still?

I don't know. I am not taking a stand on whether the unions (or any
particular union) is or are too powerful. What I am taking a stand on is
the idea that "it's a small issue so you should just comply".

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Emily" wrote in message
. ..
Dave Stadt wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jay Honeck wrote:
Zero. I would fly VFR, without them.

Do you understand you'd also have to remain clear of Class B, C, and D
airspace?


No problem.
How is that no problem? That's a HUGE problem.

No it isn't. You can get killed in those goofey places. Avoid 'em like the
plague.

[tale of corruption snipped]
Tell me how the union's conduct benefitted its
members.

Why? This has nothing to do with the idea that the idea that "it's a
small issue so you should just comply", which is what I am reacting to.
If it's such a small issue, then they should retract.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Avoid class A, B, C, D, & E.... 1 mile clear of clouds
Jim

"Emily" wrote in message
. ..
Jim Burns wrote:
I just got off the phone with a VFR only pilot that will probably flew
over
1000 hours this SUMMER and never enters B, C, or D. It's not
impossible...
hell it isn't even hard. Just ask the ag pilots.
Jim

I'm still trying to figure out how that's not hard. At least where I fly,
it's very difficult to not enter controlled airspace.

And where I used to fly? Very difficult to log 1000 hours VFR at any time
of year.

One sees a truly bizarre world where trade unionism intersects government.
We had a case where a nurse at a city-run hospital insisted on working in
the nude. She was in quality assurance, or something like that, so she had
an office. She taped paper over the window on the door, which had a lock.
She kept a robe on the hook on the door, and whenever she needed to open the
door, put on the robe. The city wanted to fire her, but never got around to
it. As far as I know, she's still there, in the buff. working away. When
you come down to it, why do controllers need to wear clothes at all?

"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

Why should government employees that aren't even seen by the customer
be forced to wear dockers and a nice shirt to work while private sector
employees that must interact with customers, like those at the Alexis
Park Inn, can dress like bums?

Your position appears to be solely based on your noted dislike of
government employees.

Steven, I am not sure that his position is based upon dislike. But if
it is, maybe it is just unionized "babies."

Ron Lee

When I was 16, I mowed an enormous hammer and sickle in the grass in the
back yard. It was some of my finest work. My father saw it and mowed the
entire back yard at 6:30 the next morning, before he went to work.

"Montblack" wrote in message
...
wrote)
One can clearly see who is a union member, and who is not, thats for
sure..


http://www.yale.edu/terc/democracy/m...ges/Strike.jpg
My older sister painted this red fist image (no words) on her window shade
one summer - probably 1969. I was nine.

It was the 'age of' ...poster paint. :-)


Montblack
Dad got promoted to a management possition with the railroad, before I was
born, but still maintained his Union membership with monthly dues - until
the day he retired.

If unions go on strike, you may not see them members. The picketers are
often temps hired to picket. When I walk downtown and see a labor
demonstration, I make it a point to ask them if they are affiliated with the
union. They rarely are. At one poignant moment, I approached a group
carrying placards about increased contribution to health care demanded by
the employer. I found out the picketers were temps hired by the union, and
they had no benefits at all.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
m...
Matt Barrow wrote:

I remember the media pictures of the controllers on strike in 1981,
dressed like crap, while picketing. It sure didn't lend them any
credibility.

There's a picket line dress code? G

In a past life, I spent some time picketing, and I thought you were
supposed to look poor.

A nice suit and a Beemer don't usually do much for public support during a
work stoppage.