If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
John,
The important point to note is that we should not try 'mix' FARs. If you want to know about logging, go look in the logging FAR. All others such as 91.155, 91.13, etc are completely irrelavent. The FAR says: "A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions." For example, let's say that a Private non-IR pilot is flying over an undercast. His/her engine fails completely and he/she glides through the clouds to a safe landing. The pilot should log that actual time because the 'logging' FAR says the pilot can. IFR, VFR, reckless, cloud distances etc etc etc has absolutely no bearing on the issue. Hilton John R Weiss wrote: "Hilton" wrote... Even if you are on a VFR flight plan and are not instrument rated? The FARs do not specify 'must be on an IFR flight plan', nor do they specify that you need to be instrument rated to log actual. Indeed, you can legally fly under VFR (even without any flight plan at all) as long as the weather is as prescribed in 91.155. There is no mention of a visible horizon... OTOH, you may find yourself at odds with 91.13(a) or 91.113(b) if you have not sufficiently prepared for the flight or don't have enough experience to safely fly in the conditions... |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
my understanding is that all the flight time above an undercast is logable
as IFR, because there is no natural horizon. You must use the Gyros to stay level. An undercast isn't always level! Harvey "Hilton" wrote in message ink.net... John, The important point to note is that we should not try 'mix' FARs. If you want to know about logging, go look in the logging FAR. All others such as 91.155, 91.13, etc are completely irrelavent. The FAR says: "A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions." For example, let's say that a Private non-IR pilot is flying over an undercast. His/her engine fails completely and he/she glides through the clouds to a safe landing. The pilot should log that actual time because the 'logging' FAR says the pilot can. IFR, VFR, reckless, cloud distances etc etc etc has absolutely no bearing on the issue. Hilton John R Weiss wrote: "Hilton" wrote... Even if you are on a VFR flight plan and are not instrument rated? The FARs do not specify 'must be on an IFR flight plan', nor do they specify that you need to be instrument rated to log actual. Indeed, you can legally fly under VFR (even without any flight plan at all) as long as the weather is as prescribed in 91.155. There is no mention of a visible horizon... OTOH, you may find yourself at odds with 91.13(a) or 91.113(b) if you have not sufficiently prepared for the flight or don't have enough experience to safely fly in the conditions... |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
"Eclipsme" wrote in message .. . my understanding is that all the flight time above an undercast is logable as IFR, because there is no natural horizon. You must use the Gyros to stay level. An undercast isn't always level! Are you in actual or simulated instrument flight conditions when you're above an undercast? |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
"Hilton" wrote in message ink.net... The FARs do not specify 'must be on an IFR flight plan', nor do they specify that you need to be instrument rated to log actual. But they do specify that it must be actual or simulated instrument flight conditions. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
"John R. Copeland" wrote in message .. . Similarly if you are in uncontrolled airspace. In uncontrolled airspace you can even fly under IFR without any flight plan or clearance at all in weather less than that prescribed in FAR 91.155. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
"Teacherjh" wrote in message ... If you have ever had an experience flying over water or in the mountains with a high overcast, moonless night, there might be a reported visibility from stations of 50 miles. Trust me, your maneuvering soley by reference to your instruments, and every bit of it is loggable as actual. Even if you are on a VFR flight plan and are not instrument rated? Absolutely! How else would you get the instrument time needed to obtain the rating? What sort of flight plan or even flight rules the operation is conducted under has never made a difference in logging. The one bizarre twist is that the FAA even allows you to log instruments while operating VFR. It can be legal VFR and be bad enough to have to fly by instruments. The FAA allows this to count. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
"Barry" wrote in message ... Even in uncontrolled (Class G) airspace, VFR is permitted only if the weather meets the requirements of 91.155. If the weather is below VFR minimums, you can fly IFR without a clearance, but this is still IFR and must be in accordance with the appropriate rules of Part 91, including fuel reserve, cruising altitude, etc. Yes, but immaterial. The weather can still be legal VFR, but bad enough to cause yout to fly solely by instruments. The FAA has affirmed this is legally logable as instrument time. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
It can be legal VFR and be bad enough to have to fly by instruments. The FAA allows this to count. Where does the FAA say that this counts? Jose -- (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address) |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...
Are you in actual or simulated instrument flight conditions when you're above an undercast? If you can't maintain level flight without reference to instruments, because there is no discernible horizon for outside reference, you are in actual instrument flight conditions. |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
"Teacherjh" wrote in message ... It can be legal VFR and be bad enough to have to fly by instruments. The FAA allows this to count. Where does the FAA say that this counts? It's what the rules literally say. Affirmed by FAA legal counsel: |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
What approaches are in a database? | Ross | Instrument Flight Rules | 11 | January 4th 04 07:57 PM |
GPS approaches with Center | Dan Luke | Instrument Flight Rules | 104 | October 22nd 03 09:42 PM |
Logging instrument approaches | Slav Inger | Instrument Flight Rules | 33 | July 27th 03 11:00 PM |
Suppose We Really Do Have Only GPS Approaches | Richard Kaplan | Instrument Flight Rules | 10 | July 20th 03 05:10 PM |
Garmin Behind the Curve on WAAS GPS VNAV Approaches | Richard Kaplan | Instrument Flight Rules | 24 | July 18th 03 01:43 PM |