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Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video



 
 
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  #71  
Old September 6th 09, 02:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Flaps_50!
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Posts: 117
Default Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

On Sep 4, 2:58*am, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Sep 3, 9:30*am, wrote:

By reading what he wrote and making the assumption he was telling the
truth.


Shoot, the video has my ATC transmissions including the approach
facility (Jackson Approach) I was headed to the NE practice area so
really not to much assumption needed regarding location of my
activities LOL


Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in?

Cheers
  #72  
Old September 6th 09, 05:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
John E. Carty
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Posts: 24
Default Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video


Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in?

Cheers


Finally I know what my grandfather meant about a dog that barks just to hear
himself, thanks for clearing that up :-)

  #73  
Old September 6th 09, 05:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
a[_3_]
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Posts: 562
Default Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

On Sep 6, 12:36*am, "John E. Carty"
wrote:
Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in?


Cheers


Finally I know what my grandfather meant about a dog that barks just to hear
himself, thanks for clearing that up :-)


It's clear the OP thinks he conducted a safe flight that enhanced his
skills. For those of us who fly utility certified airplanes with
specific pitch and bank limitations it seems or seemed foolhardy. This
horse is pretty much dead, isn't it? Beating on it just makes
hamburger (horseburger?).
  #74  
Old September 6th 09, 07:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Robert Moore
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Posts: 134
Default Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

a wrote

I don't have the documentation handy and my memory may be in error,
but I think the Mooney's limits when used in the general utility
category are 30 degrees pitch 60 degrees bank. ˙Since it's used mainly
for XC, mostly under IFR, there's no reason to ever come close to
those limits. I wondered if the Sundowner certification was markedly
different.-


FAR 23.3

(b) The utility category is limited to airplanes that have a seating
configuration, excluding pilot seats, of nine or less, a maximum
certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less, and intended for
limited acrobatic operation. Airplanes certificated in the utility
category may be used in any of the operations covered under paragraph
(a) of this section and in limited acrobatic operations. Limited
acrobatic operation includes:

(1) Spins (if approved for the particular type of airplane); and

(2) Lazy eights, chandelles, and steep turns, or similar maneuvers, in
which the angle of bank is more than 60 degrees but not more than 90
degrees.


For those of us who fly utility certified airplanes with
specific pitch and bank limitations it seems or seemed foolhardy.


I would be interested in knowing which "Utility Category" Mooney
that you fly that has specific pitch and bank limits less than those
listed in 23.3.


Bob Moore
  #75  
Old September 6th 09, 10:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
a[_3_]
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Posts: 562
Default Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

On Sep 6, 2:49*pm, Robert Moore wrote:
a wrote

I don't have the documentation handy and my memory may be in error,
but I think the Mooney's limits when used in the general utility
category are 30 degrees pitch 60 degrees bank. ˙Since it's used mainly
for XC, mostly under IFR, there's no reason to ever come close to
those limits. I wondered if the Sundowner certification was markedly
different.-


FAR 23.3

(b) The utility category is limited to airplanes that have a seating
configuration, excluding pilot seats, of nine or less, a maximum
certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less, and intended for
limited acrobatic operation. Airplanes certificated in the utility
category may be used in any of the operations covered under paragraph
(a) of this section and in limited acrobatic operations. Limited
acrobatic operation includes:

(1) Spins (if approved for the particular type of airplane); and

(2) Lazy eights, chandelles, and steep turns, or similar maneuvers, in
which the angle of bank is more than 60 degrees but not more than 90
degrees.

For those of us who fly utility certified airplanes with
specific pitch and bank limitations it seems or seemed foolhardy.


I would be interested in knowing which "Utility Category" Mooney
that you fly that has specific pitch and bank limits less than those
listed in 23.3.

Bob Moore


The manual and placards are pretty specific about pitch and bank
limits.
  #76  
Old September 7th 09, 12:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Robert Moore
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Posts: 134
Default Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

a wrote

The manual and placards are pretty specific about pitch and bank
limits.


I would then suggest that the aircraft is not certificated in
the "Utility Category" and that it is then a "Normal Category"
aircraft.

Bob Moore

Section 23.3: Airplane categories.
(a) The normal category is limited to airplanes that have a seating
configuration, excluding pilot seats, of nine or less, a maximum
certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less, and intended for
nonacrobatic operation. Nonacrobatic operation includes:

(1) Any maneuver incident to normal flying;

(2) Stalls (except whip stalls); and

(3) Lazy eights, chandelles, and steep turns, in which the angle of bank
is not more than 60 degrees.

(b) The utility category is limited to airplanes that have a seating
configuration, excluding pilot seats, of nine or less, a maximum
certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less, and intended for
limited acrobatic operation. Airplanes certificated in the utility
category may be used in any of the operations covered under paragraph
(a) of this section and in limited acrobatic operations. Limited
acrobatic operation includes:

(1) Spins (if approved for the particular type of airplane); and

(2) Lazy eights, chandelles, and steep turns, or similar maneuvers, in
which the angle of bank is more than 60 degrees but not more than 90
degrees.

(c) The acrobatic category is limited to airplanes that have a seating
configuration, excluding pilot seats, of nine or less, a maximum
certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less, and intended for
use without restrictions, other than those shown to be necessary as a
result of required flight tests.

(d) The commuter category is limited to propeller-driven, multiengine
airplanes that have a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of
19 or less, and a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 19,000 pounds
or less. The commuter category operation is limited to any maneuver
incident to normal flying, stalls (except whip stalls), and steep turns,
in which the angle of bank is not more than 60 degrees.

(e) Except for commuter category, airplanes may be type certificated in
more than one category if the requirements of each requested category
are met.

  #77  
Old September 7th 09, 12:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
BeechSundowner
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Posts: 138
Default Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

On Sep 5, 8:15*pm, "Flaps_50!" wrote:
On Sep 4, 2:58*am, BeechSundowner wrote:

On Sep 3, 9:30*am, wrote:


By reading what he wrote and making the assumption he was telling the
truth.


Shoot, the video has my ATC transmissions including the approach
facility (Jackson Approach) I was headed to the NE practice area so
really not to much assumption needed regarding location of my
activities LOL


Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in?


Did you look at the sectional. The answer is there. I already told
you my location.
  #78  
Old September 7th 09, 04:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Flaps_50!
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Posts: 117
Default Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

On Sep 7, 11:51*pm, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Sep 5, 8:15*pm, "Flaps_50!" wrote:

On Sep 4, 2:58*am, BeechSundowner wrote:


On Sep 3, 9:30*am, wrote:


By reading what he wrote and making the assumption he was telling the
truth.


Shoot, the video has my ATC transmissions including the approach
facility (Jackson Approach) I was headed to the NE practice area so
really not to much assumption needed regarding location of my
activities LOL


Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in?


Did you look at the sectional. *The answer is there. *I already told
you my location.


Nope, but I can see lots of restricted airspace and victors so where
is this NE training area exactly?

Cheers
  #79  
Old September 7th 09, 04:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Flaps_50!
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

On Sep 6, 4:36*pm, "John E. Carty" wrote:
Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in?


Cheers


Finally I know what my grandfather meant about a dog that barks just to hear
himself, thanks for clearing that up :-)


Pot - kettle?
  #80  
Old September 7th 09, 04:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Flaps_50!
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

On Sep 7, 4:29*am, a wrote:
On Sep 6, 12:36*am, "John E. Carty"
wrote:

Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in?


Cheers


Finally I know what my grandfather meant about a dog that barks just to hear
himself, thanks for clearing that up :-)


It's clear the OP thinks he conducted a safe flight that enhanced his
skills. For those of us who fly utility certified airplanes with
specific pitch and bank limitations it seems or seemed foolhardy. This
horse is pretty much dead, isn't it? Beating on it just makes
hamburger (horseburger?).


Yes, I agree. At least the awareness of serious issues has been
raised tho'

Cheers
 




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