A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Towplane-Baron accident



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 23rd 14, 03:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JP Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Towplane-Baron accident

Odd circumstance: http://www.lagrangenews.com/news/hom...llaway-Airport

JP
  #2  
Old February 23rd 14, 05:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 275
Default Towplane-Baron accident

The title is deceiving. The tow plane was not involved in the accident according to the news paper article. It was operating on a different intersecting runway.

First impression from the article. The Baron was doing touch and goes, climbed 150-200 ft and nosed over. My "guess", trim was not reset from landing to takeoff, power up nose pitched up to a stall.

BillT
  #3  
Old February 23rd 14, 05:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JP Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Towplane-Baron accident

How I read it, it sounded like they tried to avoid a collision and overacted or something similar. Speculation, sorry if the title doesn't fit but they article cited it as a factor.

JP
  #4  
Old February 23rd 14, 05:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,610
Default Towplane-Baron accident

On Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:50:49 PM UTC-5, Jp Stewart wrote:
Odd circumstance: http://www.lagrangenews.com/news/hom...llaway-Airport

JP


Explanation in this one (accuracy TBD):
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...crashes-n36371
  #5  
Old February 23rd 14, 05:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default Towplane-Baron accident

Ooooooooooo... If it was in the newspaper, it must be true! It's a tragedy
whenever we lose a planeload of people, but it does no good to speculate
that a glider tow on a different runway was somehow part of the accident.

I'm still trying to figure out what a "nose dive" is. Is it related to a
"tail spin"?


"Dave Nadler" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:50:49 PM UTC-5, Jp Stewart wrote:
Odd circumstance:
http://www.lagrangenews.com/news/hom...llaway-Airport

JP


Explanation in this one (accuracy TBD):
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...crashes-n36371


  #6  
Old February 23rd 14, 06:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,610
Default Towplane-Baron accident

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:48:48 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Ooooooooooo... If it was in the newspaper, it must be true!
... but it does no good to speculate...


Which is why I wrote "accuracy TBD"...
The consequences of the reported cause can
be severe, whether or not correct...
Very sad.
  #7  
Old February 23rd 14, 08:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean F (F2)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 573
Default Towplane-Baron accident

I can see how this scenario has been presented by the media (per witness descriptions) but from what I have gathered, the Baron never got close enough to any other aircraft as to require such drastic maneuvering as a "pull up.." Pull up to severe stall (resulting in a fatal nose dive) from what exactly? Nothing? I am thinking that the Baron pilot (albeit tragic) really screwed up here.

The only reason I can see for major pull up resulting in a complete power on stall would be if there was an imminent collision. This was clearly not the case in this situation. This makes no sense to me unless aircraft missed each-other by a matter of feet.

Until the NTSB initial report comes out...
  #8  
Old February 23rd 14, 10:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Towplane-Baron accident

OK guys. I guess it's time to post some of what we really know. I'm the president of Southern eagles Soaring Club at LaGrange. We were not operating Saturday and I was not at the field. The Civil Air Patrol had been operating their L23 towed by their 172, for several hours from runway 3.

The Baron had been doing ILS low approaches to runway 31. They landed and refueled. There were various reports of what the Baron was doing before it crashed, including a missed approach from a practice ILS, a take off, and a go around. With all these reports, you can judge for your self the accuracy.. Everyone agreed that they did not hear any radio calls from the Baron.

The 172 and L23 were stopped on runway 3, south of runway 31. They never crossed the runway. The crews were very experienced, with 2 CFIG's in the L23 and a retired Air Force pilot and now Delta Captain flying the 172. One of the CFIGs is also a club member.

The crews saw the Baron at low altitude along runway 31. It pulled up very nose high, rolled to the left from 100-200 feet, and crashed in an approximate 60 degree nose down attitude. The front seat pilots were killed on impact. The passenger in the back later died at the hospital.

We do not now, nor will we ever know what made the PIC take the action that he did. They could have been flying simulated instruments, practicing single engine, had an engine failure, or any of a number of things.

Since the names have been release, we do know that the two co-owners were in the aircraft along with another pilot. Records show one of the co-owners was multi-engine rated. No records on the other co-owner. The third person did hold an ATP and instructors rating. We do not know the seating arrangement or who was at the controls.

All the noise about a glider being involved was from one person that was interviewed by two TV stations. He said the Baron was trying to avoid a glider. It unclear as to his actually seeing the crash. The only glider operating that day was sitting on runway 3 behind the tow plane.

Also to show the accuracy of the reporting, one of the stations reported the Baron had flown from Panama City, FL to LaGrange that morning. They used a screen shot from flightAware.com to confirm it. When we checked flightaware, it did indeed show a flight from Panama City as being the last flight they had recorded. Of course, That flight took place in October, 2013!

If any FACTS become available, I'll let you know. However, conjecture will not accomplish anything and could hurt our sport.

Charlie
  #9  
Old March 27th 14, 04:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Towplane-Baron accident

On Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:50:49 PM UTC-5, Jp Stewart wrote:
Odd circumstance: http://www.lagrangenews.com/news/hom...llaway-Airport



JP


ironically that was the last thing he asked me, "did you schedule a lesson for sunday" i didnt go to that lesson on that sunday but im starting back today, got 6 hours before my checkride. I know my mom will not like me flying but i love it too much, like you said, and i wont let this event ground me.
  #10  
Old April 1st 14, 12:01 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
SoaringXCellence
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 385
Default Towplane-Baron accident

JP,

My father, a highly competitive soaring pilot, died in a sailplane accident in 1978 during the US Nationals at Minden. I was told during his funeral that I would probably not take up flying My response has always been that events in the lives of other people are not restrictions on my life, but that there are always things to learn from tragic circumstances. Unfortunately, in my father's case, there has never been a clear explanation of the cause, (But JJ's article "Don't Smack the Mountain" is probably the best guess)

In spite of that, I've been flying since 1985, now with more than 5500 hours (more than three times my father's hours) and while I've had my share of close calls, I've enjoyed flying.

As noted above, each time we step into an aircraft we increase our risks. Some time in the future we may encounter a fatal error, perhaps not of our own making. In the mean time I'm delighted to be able to fly and experience the feelings it gives me.

I understand your loss, look for joy in the rest of life.

Mike
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cessna 170 for a towplane? Scott Alexander[_2_] Soaring 9 April 30th 12 06:57 PM
Have towplane will travel Tim Gundersen Soaring 0 June 30th 11 07:13 PM
Pik-27 towplane Brad[_2_] Soaring 2 March 10th 09 01:01 AM
Towplane accident at The Dalles, Oregon Stewart Kissel Soaring 24 September 20th 04 07:20 PM
C 172XP Towplane Thomas F. Dixon Soaring 3 March 14th 04 09:02 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.