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#51
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Engine noise on aircraft has always been a problem, specifically on combat
(non-passenger) types. On some aircraft, you can tell which position a person is sitting at by how much engine noise bleeds over to the ICS. Even something as small as a B-25 has noticeable engine noise and high freq tones bleeding over when you key the ICS, so I really can't see how a crew aboard a Lanc could use their normal speaking voices and be heard. As for the technology of noise-canceling microphones in 1943, I think its implausible that a Lanc would be fitted with a system equipped with such microphones for every member of the crew - I agree with the guys who feel this is a studio-done, or studio-cleaned-up, product. I don't doubt that the dialogue came primarily from a Lanc crew, but its too clean! Think of what its like in a WWII bomber - you can barely hear yourself think. The drone of those Merlins would be present on the recordings no matter what measures were taken to screen them out - it would be like recording a dialogue aboard the "Maid of the Mist", and somehow screening out the sounds of Niagra Falls, a few feet away. How likely is that? My hunch is that the BBC guys did fly along on the mission, did record it, and brought it back and (at a minimum) cleaned it up before broadcast. Next, I'd like to hear a recording of the Reichsjägerweile - the "running commentary" radio broadcasts that occurred over Northern Europe during massive Allied raids. Once the EW stations were overwhelmed, the Lulftwaffe ground controllers switched to this commentary to tell units where and how the battle raged - "Many trucks over Dortmund, heading Southward at 7,000 meters; at fifteen after the hour, Christmas trees and duppel were dropped over Hanover for what appears to be a feint attack. All aircraft in sector FA are ordered to land for refueling and await further orders. Pfadfinder reported dropping flares on Osnabruck in advance of a strong raid..." etc. Hour after hour of the details of a strike, from the enemy perspective. I think it would be highly interesting to hear, but as far as I know, there are no recordings available...? v/r Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR Aircrew "Got anything on your radar, SENSO?" "Nothing but my forehead, sir." |
#52
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Hi Gord
Nobody has addressed the issue of the use of the term bombardier by the skipper. Cheers...Chris |
#53
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"av8r" wrote in message ... Hi Gord Nobody has addressed the issue of the use of the term bombardier by the skipper. They have on several occasions. Keith |
#54
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av8r wrote:
Hi Gord Nobody has addressed the issue of the use of the term bombardier by the skipper. ISTM that it has been addressed at great length. Among many others I noticed it, and I agree it _is_ unusual, but maybe not decisive. Guy |
#55
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av8r wrote:
Hi Gord Nobody has addressed the issue of the use of the term bombardier by the skipper. Cheers...Chris I know...I saw you mention it a few times but for the life of me I can't remember what term we (RCAF) used in the fifties...mind you now, this was an RAF crew I believe so I can't speak for them.. I seem to be leaning toward 'Bomb Aimer' but without a lot of conviction. -- -Gord. |
#56
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 "Gordon" wrote in message ... Engine noise on aircraft has always been a problem, specifically on combat (non-passenger) types. On some aircraft, you can tell which position a person is sitting at by how much engine noise bleeds over to the ICS. Even something as small as a B-25 has noticeable engine noise and high freq tones bleeding over when you key the ICS, so I really can't see how a crew aboard a Lanc could use their normal speaking voices and be heard. As for the technology of noise-canceling microphones in 1943, I think its implausible that a Lanc would be fitted with a system equipped with such microphones for every member of the crew - I agree with the guys who feel this is a studio-done, or studio-cleaned-up, product. If crew members had to yell over the mics to be heard, then it could not have been a cleaned up recording. The speakers are not yelling. You could filter out the engine sound, but a yelling voice is clearly noticible and no filtration could make it sound like those voices, they were not yelling. If you accept the premise that Lancaster crew members had to yell to be heard over the intercom, it must have been a reenacted scene. I don't doubt that the dialogue came primarily from a Lanc crew, but its too clean! Think of what its like in a WWII bomber - you can barely hear yourself think. The drone of those Merlins would be present on the recordings no matter what measures were taken to screen them out - it would be like recording a dialogue aboard the "Maid of the Mist", and somehow screening out the sounds of Niagra Falls, a few feet away. How likely is that? My hunch is that the BBC guys did fly along on the mission, did record it, and brought it back and (at a minimum) cleaned it up before broadcast. Next, I'd like to hear a recording of the Reichsjägerweile - the "running commentary" radio broadcasts that occurred over Northern Europe during massive Allied raids. Once the EW stations were overwhelmed, the Lulftwaffe ground controllers switched to this commentary to tell units where and how the battle raged - "Many trucks over Dortmund, heading Southward at 7,000 meters; at fifteen after the hour, Christmas trees and duppel were dropped over Hanover for what appears to be a feint attack. All aircraft in sector FA are ordered to land for refueling and await further orders. Pfadfinder reported dropping flares on Osnabruck in advance of a strong raid..." etc. Hour after hour of the details of a strike, from the enemy perspective. I think it would be highly interesting to hear, but as far as I know, there are no recordings available...? v/r Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR Aircrew "Got anything on your radar, SENSO?" "Nothing but my forehead, sir." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0 iQA/AwUBP3+a6VBGDfMEdHggEQJfZQCgljEO2pVd4ZNo2k5TFgqHhm dmXDoAoIqR p4oxoheyDePFAT26RP09rpLE =lIPP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#57
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"Gord Beaman" wrote in message ... av8r wrote: Hi Gord Nobody has addressed the issue of the use of the term bombardier by the skipper. Cheers...Chris I know...I saw you mention it a few times but for the life of me I can't remember what term we (RCAF) used in the fifties...mind you now, this was an RAF crew I believe so I can't speak for them.. I seem to be leaning toward 'Bomb Aimer' but without a lot of conviction. The RAF at that time seem to have used both 'bomb aimer' and 'air bomber' the latter being often shortened to 'bomber' IF the broadcast was a reconstruction based on a noisy recording its quite easy to see how 'bomber' could become 'bombardier' Keith |
#58
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Hi Keith
The problem with my server is that I'm only getting a certain percentage of the responses to any post (about 40 percent I reckon) so it's most likely I did not see whatever was said about the bombardier. Cheers...Chris |
#59
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#60
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"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
The equipment used was apparently restricted to the range 60 Hz to 4500 Hz The microphones and interphone equipment, on the other hand, had a frequency response of roughly 300-3000 Hz. Depending on the type of microphone used (T-17, T-44, British HI, or a zillion others - the Station Boxes (probably Bendix MI-22s) could handle lots of different types of microphones), the response characteristics might be a little different, but not much. The interphone amplifier likely also has a filter to supress anything out of the 300-3000 Hz range. There were noise cancelling mikes back then, but they were not very good. Did someone mention a disc recorder being used? Frankly, I can not think of anything worse to take on a big bomber. The virbrations from the engines would go right thru to the cutting head mechanically, even with a good shockmount. -- William Donzelli |
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