Poor service and bad attitude from LXNAV

In response to a request for a wiring diagram for a cable for the
LXNAV V7 to the Oudie to build cables that connect to my panel (pass
through connector on the panel), I got a very poor response and no
help (see below) from LXNAV. I have never seen a supplier in the
soaring field in twenty-five years provide such poor service and
display such a negative attitude. Thankfully, Richard at Craggy Aero
provided the diagram that indeed shows that the wiring is not standard
and would not be obvious from reading the LXNAV manual.

I hope this was a bad day at LXNAV and not indicitive of their
customer service overall.

__________________________________________________ ______
Hello,

All necessary is described in V7 Manual. If you are not an expert and
do not understand pin descriptions, please do not try to make your own
cables as you will make more damage than profit.

Best Regards, Uros Krasovic

Uroš Krašovic
www.lxnav.com
LXNAV d.o.o.
Kidri�eva 24a
3000 Celje
Tel. +38659233400

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:10:04 AM UTC-8, Tim Taylor wrote:
In response to a request for a wiring diagram for a cable for the

LXNAV V7 to the Oudie to build cables that connect to my panel (pass

through connector on the panel), I got a very poor response and no

help (see below) from LXNAV. I have never seen a supplier in the

soaring field in twenty-five years provide such poor service and

display such a negative attitude. Thankfully, Richard at Craggy Aero

provided the diagram that indeed shows that the wiring is not standard

and would not be obvious from reading the LXNAV manual.



I hope this was a bad day at LXNAV and not indicitive of their

customer service overall.



__________________________________________________ ______

Hello,



All necessary is described in V7 Manual. If you are not an expert and

do not understand pin descriptions, please do not try to make your own

cables as you will make more damage than profit.



Best Regards, Uros Krasovic



Uroš Krašovic

www.lxnav.com

LXNAV d.o.o.

Kidri�eva 24a

3000 Celje

Tel. +38659233400

I might be missing something, but page 35 of the V7 manual provides a clear depiction of the pinouts for the RJ45 connector that goes to a PDA/PNA. I wouldn't be so hard on Uros over this. I'm curious what he wouldn't tell you that Richard did?

Cheers,
Craig

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:10:04 AM UTC-8, Tim Taylor wrote:
In response to a request for a wiring diagram for a cable for the LXNAV V7 to the Oudie to build cables that connect to my panel (pass through connector on the panel), I got a very poor response and no help (see below) from LXNAV. I have never seen a supplier in the soaring field in twenty-five years provide such poor service and display such a negative attitude. Thankfully, Richard at Craggy Aero provided the diagram that indeed shows that the wiring is not standard and would not be obvious from reading the LXNAV manual. I hope this was a bad day at LXNAV and not indicitive of their customer service overall. __________________________________________________ ______ Hello, All necessary is described in V7 Manual. If you are not an expert and do not understand pin descriptions, please do not try to make your own cables as you will make more damage than profit. Best Regards, Uros Krasovic Uroš Krašovic www.lxnav.com LXNAV d.o.o. Kidri�eva 24a 3000 Celje Tel. +38659233400

Tim,

IMHO LX NAV provides the best support and supplies the best products in the soaring industry. I can't begin to tell you how many Oudies have been bricked and how much troubleshooting time spent by customers making their own cables, even with the print I provided you. The cable sells for $34 at Craggy Aero. Unless your time is worth little or nothing why take the risk..

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:00:20 AM UTC-8, Craig Funston wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:10:04 AM UTC-8, Tim Taylor wrote: In response to a request for a wiring diagram for a cable for the LXNAV V7 to the Oudie to build cables that connect to my panel (pass through connector on the panel), I got a very poor response and no help (see below) from LXNAV. I have never seen a supplier in the soaring field in twenty-five years provide such poor service and display such a negative attitude. Thankfully, Richard at Craggy Aero provided the diagram that indeed shows that the wiring is not standard and would not be obvious from reading the LXNAV manual. I hope this was a bad day at LXNAV and not indicitive of their customer service overall. __________________________________________________ ______ Hello, All necessary is described in V7 Manual. If you are not an expert and do not understand pin descriptions, please do not try to make your own cables as you will make more damage than profit. Best Regards, Uros Krasovic Uroš Krašovic www.lxnav.com LXNAV d.o.o. Kidri�eva 24a 3000 Celje Tel. +38659233400 I might be missing something, but page 35 of the V7 manual provides a clear depiction of the pinouts for the RJ45 connector that goes to a PDA/PNA. I wouldn't be so hard on Uros over this. I'm curious what he wouldn't tell you that Richard did? Cheers, Craig

Craig,

I supplied a print with the connections of both the V7 and Oudie connectors.. I did this because I know Tim and he is meticulous and is more that capable of making the cables. I did caution him not to be dysletic. I have mix up numbers on connectors it is easy to do and we don't want to let the smoke out.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:16:49 AM UTC-8, Richard wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:00:20 AM UTC-8, Craig Funston wrote:

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:10:04 AM UTC-8, Tim Taylor wrote: In response to a request for a wiring diagram for a cable for the LXNAV V7 to the Oudie to build cables that connect to my panel (pass through connector on the panel), I got a very poor response and no help (see below) from LXNAV. I have never seen a supplier in the soaring field in twenty-five years provide such poor service and display such a negative attitude. Thankfully, Richard at Craggy Aero provided the diagram that indeed shows that the wiring is not standard and would not be obvious from reading the LXNAV manual. I hope this was a bad day at LXNAV and not indicitive of their customer service overall. __________________________________________________ ______ Hello, All necessary is described in V7 Manual. If you are not an expert and do not understand pin descriptions, please do not try to make your own cables as you will make more damage than profit. Best Regards, Uros Krasovic Uroš Krašovic www.lxnav.com LXNAV d.o.o. Kidri�eva 24a 3000 Celje Tel. +38659233400 I might be missing something, but page 35 of the V7 manual provides a clear depiction of the pinouts for the RJ45 connector that goes to a PDA/PNA. I wouldn't be so hard on Uros over this. I'm curious what he wouldn't tell you that Richard did? Cheers, Craig



Craig,



I supplied a print with the connections of both the V7 and Oudie connectors. I did this because I know Tim and he is meticulous and is more that capable of making the cables. I did caution him not to be dysletic. I have mix up numbers on connectors it is easy to do and we don't want to let the smoke out.



Richard

www.craggyaero.com

Thanks Richard. I saw that on the V7 thread. I've already made a shortened cable using the pinouts from the V7 and Vertica documentation. It did help though to have an example cable and multimeter to verify my interpretation of the documentation. Thanks for your support to the glider community.
Craig

On Nov 27, 10:08Â*am, Richard wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:10:04 AM UTC-8, Tim Taylor wrote:
In response to a request for a wiring diagram for a cable for the LXNAV V7 to the Oudie to build cables that connect to my panel (pass through connector on the panel), I got a very poor response and no help (see below) from LXNAV. I have never seen a supplier in the soaring field in twenty-five years provide such poor service and display such a negative attitude. Thankfully, Richard at Craggy Aero provided the diagram that indeed shows that the wiring is not standard and would not be obvious from reading the LXNAV manual. I hope this was a bad day at LXNAV and not indicitive of their customer service overall. __________________________________________________ ______ Hello, All necessary is described in V7 Manual. If you are not an expert and do not understand pin descriptions, please do not try to make your own cables as you will make more damage than profit. Best Regards, Uros Krasovic Uroš Krašovicwww.lxnav.comLXNAV d.o.o. Kidri�eva 24a 3000 Celje Tel. +38659233400

Tim,

IMHO Â*LX NAV provides the best support and supplies the best products in the soaring industry. Â* I Â*can't begin to tell you how many Oudies have been bricked and how much troubleshooting time spent by customers making their own cables, even with the print I provided you. Â*The cable sells for $34 at Craggy Aero. Â*Unless your time is worth little or nothing why take the risk.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

Craig and Richard,

1. I do own a CC-NP-Oudie cable made by LXNAV, so was not trying to
get around LXNAV on cables.

2. I have a pass through connector on my panel, RJ25 to RJ25 (often
called an RJ11 by some) so I wanted to build two cables; RJ45 to RJ25
and RJ25 to Mini-USB. So that I can connect through the panel. This
allows me to leave the V7 connected to the panel, but pull out the
front cable easily in the cockpit.

3. I wrote to LXNAV explaining what I was doing and got the above
response. I found it odd that they could not provide me with the
cable diagram and a simple warning that I need to be extremely careful
or I could hurt the V7 and Oudie.

4. Craig, the Oudie requires a fifth wire that would not be obvious
from the V7 diagram in the manual and not part of the Mini-USB
standard protocol. Unfortunately there is no wiring diagram in the
Oudie Manual. I could tell that an additional wire was required and
to avoid damaging my V7 or Oudie contacted the manufactures, both
LXNAV and navITer.

My complaint was the fact that LXNAV failed to provide the cable
diagram when asked even though they make and sell the cable and the
attitude present in the respose.

As I said, I hope it was just a bad day for them.

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:48:15 AM UTC-8, Tim Taylor wrote:
On Nov 27, 10:08Â*am, Richard wrote:

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:10:04 AM UTC-8, Tim Taylor wrote:

In response to a request for a wiring diagram for a cable for the LXNAV V7 to the Oudie to build cables that connect to my panel (pass through connector on the panel), I got a very poor response and no help (see below) from LXNAV. I have never seen a supplier in the soaring field in twenty-five years provide such poor service and display such a negative attitude. Thankfully, Richard at Craggy Aero provided the diagram that indeed shows that the wiring is not standard and would not be obvious from reading the LXNAV manual. I hope this was a bad day at LXNAV and not indicitive of their customer service overall. __________________________________________________ ______ Hello, All necessary is described in V7 Manual. If you are not an expert and do not understand pin descriptions, please do not try to make your own cables as you will make more damage than profit. Best Regards, Uros Krasovic Uroš Krašovicwww.lxnav.comLXNAV d.o.o. Kidri�eva 24a 3000 Celje Tel. +38659233400



Tim,



IMHO Â*LX NAV provides the best support and supplies the best products in the soaring industry. Â* I Â*can't begin to tell you how many Oudies have been bricked and how much troubleshooting time spent by customers making their own cables, even with the print I provided you. Â*The cable sells for $34 at Craggy Aero. Â*Unless your time is worth little or nothing why take the risk.



Richardwww.craggyaero.com



Craig and Richard,



1. I do own a CC-NP-Oudie cable made by LXNAV, so was not trying to

get around LXNAV on cables.



2. I have a pass through connector on my panel, RJ25 to RJ25 (often

called an RJ11 by some) so I wanted to build two cables; RJ45 to RJ25

and RJ25 to Mini-USB. So that I can connect through the panel. This

allows me to leave the V7 connected to the panel, but pull out the

front cable easily in the cockpit.



3. I wrote to LXNAV explaining what I was doing and got the above

response. I found it odd that they could not provide me with the

cable diagram and a simple warning that I need to be extremely careful

or I could hurt the V7 and Oudie.



4. Craig, the Oudie requires a fifth wire that would not be obvious

from the V7 diagram in the manual and not part of the Mini-USB

standard protocol. Unfortunately there is no wiring diagram in the

Oudie Manual. I could tell that an additional wire was required and

to avoid damaging my V7 or Oudie contacted the manufactures, both

LXNAV and navITer.



My complaint was the fact that LXNAV failed to provide the cable

diagram when asked even though they make and sell the cable and the

attitude present in the respose.



As I said, I hope it was just a bad day for them.

Fair enough Tim. I agree wiring diagrams and pinouts should be freely available from the manufacturers. I was able to find the Oudie pinouts via an old post from Andrej.

http://forum.naviter.com/showthread....RJ45-connector

Studying the cables I have and the documentation it looks like typical Oudie cables double up the +12v lead, using pins 7 & 8 from the V7, resulting in 5 wires. Probably not strictly required, but doesn't hurt anything either.

As an outsider with no emotional vesting in the outcome, Uros' email just reads like a best attempt (in English) at warning you of the hazards that lay ahead. Maybe just some of the customer service was literally lost in translation. I'm sure it is better than I could come up with in Slovene if I had to.

Thankfully you've got great reps here in the US to help back up the factory..

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:10:04 AM UTC-5, Tim Taylor wrote:
I have never seen a supplier in the
soaring field in twenty-five years provide such poor service and
display such a negative attitude.

You know, I built a Bluetooth adapter from parts for my LXNAV v7 using the documentation provided in the manual.

Isn't the Oudie a proprietary product made by a company other than LXNAV? I mean, LXNAV documents their technology and provides a PDA compatible interface (e.g., TTL level signals!). How you get an Oudie to accept a serial signal via the USB port is not LXNAV's issue. How they wire up their own cables is not something you can expect them to document (try asking Apple for the full schematics of their latest $3000 laptop!).

Either way, I have had good interactions with LXNAV in the past with some fruitful idea exchange (and some of it led to the first XCSoar driver for the V7!)

On Nov 27, 11:19Â*am, Craig Funston
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:48:15 AM UTC-8, Tim Taylor wrote:
On Nov 27, 10:08Â*am, Richard wrote:

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:10:04 AM UTC-8, Tim Taylor wrote:

In response to a request for a wiring diagram for a cable for the LXNAV V7 to the Oudie to build cables that connect to my panel (pass through connector on the panel), I got a very poor response and no help (see below) from LXNAV. I have never seen a supplier in the soaring field in twenty-five years provide such poor service and display such a negative attitude. Thankfully, Richard at Craggy Aero provided the diagram that indeed shows that the wiring is not standard and would not be obvious from reading the LXNAV manual. I hope this was a bad day at LXNAV and not indicitive of their customer service overall. __________________________________________________ ______ Hello, All necessary is described in V7 Manual. If you are not an expert and do not understand pin descriptions, please do not try to make your own cables as you will make more damage than profit. Best Regards, Uros Krasovic Uroš Krašovicwww.lxnav.comLXNAVd.o.o. Kidri�eva 24a 3000 Celje Tel. +38659233400

Tim,

IMHO Â*LX NAV provides the best support and supplies the best products in the soaring industry. Â* I Â*can't begin to tell you how many Oudies have been bricked and how much troubleshooting time spent by customers making their own cables, even with the print I provided you. Â*The cable sells for $34 at Craggy Aero. Â*Unless your time is worth little or nothing why take the risk.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

Craig and Richard,

1. I do own a CC-NP-Oudie cable made by LXNAV, so was not trying to

get around LXNAV on cables.

2. I have a pass through connector on my panel, RJ25 to RJ25 (often

called an RJ11 by some) so I wanted to build two cables; RJ45 to RJ25

and RJ25 to Mini-USB. So that I can connect through the panel. Â*This

allows me to leave the V7 connected to the panel, but pull out the

front cable easily in the cockpit.

3. I wrote to LXNAV explaining what I was doing and got the above

response. Â*I found it odd that they could not provide me with the

cable diagram and a simple warning that I need to be extremely careful

or I could hurt the V7 and Oudie.

4. Craig, the Oudie requires a fifth wire that would not be obvious

from the V7 diagram in the manual and not part of the Mini-USB

standard protocol. Â*Unfortunately there is no wiring diagram in the

Oudie Manual. Â*I could tell that an additional wire was required and

to avoid damaging my V7 or Oudie contacted the manufactures, both

LXNAV and navITer.

My complaint was the fact that LXNAV failed to provide the cable

diagram when asked even though they make and sell the cable and the

attitude present in the respose.

As I said, I hope it was just a bad day for them.

Fair enough Tim. Â*I agree wiring diagrams and pinouts should be freely available from the manufacturers. Â*I was able to find the Oudie pinouts via an old post from Andrej.

http://forum.naviter.com/showthread....the-Oudie-RJ45...

Studying the cables I have and the documentation it looks like typical Oudie cables double up the +12v lead, using pins 7 & 8 from the V7, resulting in 5 wires. Â*Probably not strictly required, but doesn't hurt anything either.

Glad you got it working & too bad the pinout information wasn't in the Oudie manual where it belongs.

Cheers,
Craig

Craig,

Actually the five wires are essential for powering and communication
with the Oudie. My understanding from LXNAV and reading between the
lines on the navITer forums is the number four pin on the Mini-USB
that is not normally used in most USB cables carries +5v that is a
signal to the Oudie port to switch to RS-232 mode. Without the fifth
line signal the port will not work. This appears to be a common
repeated thread on the navITer forum that is never clearly addressed.
I agree that it would be nice if a diagram and explanation was
included in the Oudie Manual.

Tim