most of eastern Massachussetts airspace closed in July

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:02:14 -0400, Ron Rosenfeld ("Ron") writes:

Ron On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:25:42 -0400, Peter R.

Ron wrote:

This will shut down all Angel Flights into and out of Boston's Logan
Airport, a very common destination for children with severe burns,
cancer
survivors, and organ transplant recipients.

Ron How do you know that?

Because those are GA flights, which will definitely be banned
from BOS, according to the information we have from the Boston
newspapers and what's been posted here from the FAA web site.

The only real question is whether the poster is correct that there
are lots of Angel flights out the affected airports.

There are typically a handful of Angel Flights per month to or from BOS, a
smaller number to or from BED, and seldom any to or from the other nearby
airports. (The flights are listed on the Angel Flight web site, but the list
is only accessible to Angel Flight members.)

--Gary

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:05:10 GMT, Gary Drescher ("Gary") writes:

Gary "Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
Gary ...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:02:14 -0400, Ron Rosenfeld ("Ron") writes:

Ron On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:25:42 -0400, Peter R.
Gary
Ron wrote:

This will shut down all Angel Flights into and out of Boston's Logan
Airport, a very common destination for children with severe burns,
Gary cancer
survivors, and organ transplant recipients.

Ron How do you know that?

Because those are GA flights, which will definitely be banned
from BOS, according to the information we have from the Boston
newspapers and what's been posted here from the FAA web site.

The only real question is whether the poster is correct that there
are lots of Angel flights out the affected airports.

Gary There are typically a handful of Angel Flights per month to or from BOS, a
Gary smaller number to or from BED, and seldom any to or from the other nearby
Gary airports. (The flights are listed on the Angel Flight web site, but the list
Gary is only accessible to Angel Flight members.)

So the original poster would seem to be entirely correct,
not even considering other similar organization's flights.

Christopher C. Stacy wrote:

The only real question is whether the poster is correct that there
are lots of Angel flights out the affected airports.

I am a very active pilot of Angel Flight Northeast. During any given
week there are about 25 to 30 flights into and out of Boston's Logan.

--
Peter







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On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 21:46:18 GMT, (Christopher C.
Stacy) wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:02:14 -0400, Ron Rosenfeld ("Ron") writes:

Ron On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:25:42 -0400, Peter R.
Ron wrote:

This will shut down all Angel Flights into and out of Boston's Logan
Airport, a very common destination for children with severe burns, cancer
survivors, and organ transplant recipients.

Ron How do you know that?

Because those are GA flights, which will definitely be banned
from BOS, according to the information we have from the Boston
newspapers and what's been posted here from the FAA web site.

The only real question is whether the poster is correct that there
are lots of Angel flights out the affected airports. Boston is in
fact a national destination for medical care and research hospitals,
so that claim seems plausible on the face of it. The remaining detail
would then be about which Boston airport, and how the TFR will treat
the close-in major reliever airports like BED/OWD/LGA, if the flights
would be using those instead.

Do you have some reason to believe that it's not true?

1. Emergency medical flights are not included in the restriction.
2. Angel Flight is presently negotiating with Homeland Security.

So while what you post "may" come to pass, I don't see it as necessarily
set in stone as yet.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld ) wrote:

2. Angel Flight is presently negotiating with Homeland Security.

Interesting. I was thinking about this last night and it seems to me that
it would be rather easy for the Angel Flight office to provide mission
information well ahead of time to pass some type of verification process.
Hopefully, das Homeland Security will also arrive at the same conclusion.


--
Peter














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(Christopher C. Stacy) wrote in message ...
The Democratic National Convention is coming to Boston in July.

The Boston Globe today reported that the FAA is going to restrict
all air traffic within 30 nm of Boston: no private aircraft will
be allowed to operate in the airspace. The main thrust of the
story was that this restriction included all the helicopters
used by the traffic reporting services and television news.

You see, ground traffic is being restricted into Boston as well,
including all the major roads and highways being closed in all
directions for dozens of miles around, the public transit system
being shut down in many places, and the mayor and other officials
basically saying, "Boston is closed this week, all businesses
should shut down and everyone please just stay out of the city."

Tell me about it! I work in Cambridge and use public transportation
through cities like Malden,Medford,Somerville which as you know are
just outside the DMZ (Democractic Mess Zone). Those areas are already
clusterf*cks every weekday during rush hour; I don't want to even
imagine all those thousands of additional cars being pre-empted off
93.

Of course, the local town officials are getting into it now, saying
they'll shut down their local roads if they don't get assistance
(additional police, etc.). Everyone's just getting way to caught up in
the 'process' and 'turf' and 'wagging their authority' and over what?
Basically, a party is all it is...

Oh, then there's the probability of having to take a shuttle from BOS
to DCA or IAD for a meeting?!!??? I guess the last nail in the coffin
would be some weather that week as well, as if the choke points aren't
enough already.

Nothing like this has ever been done here,

Gee, I wonder why. What's the old saying? Just because you can doesn't
mean you should....

and all the road closings and traffic re-routing to go around Boston
is going to be a terrible mess.

I think it's time to just WALK up to NH that week. I don't wanna be
anywhere near this...

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:55:34 -0400, Ron Rosenfeld ("Ron") writes:

Ron On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 21:46:18 GMT, (Christopher C.
Ron Stacy) wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:02:14 -0400, Ron Rosenfeld ("Ron") writes:

Ron On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:25:42 -0400, Peter R.
Ron wrote:

This will shut down all Angel Flights into and out of Boston's Logan
Airport, a very common destination for children with severe burns, cancer
survivors, and organ transplant recipients.

Ron How do you know that?

Because those are GA flights,

Ron 1. Emergency medical flights are not included in the restriction.
Ron 2. Angel Flight is presently negotiating with Homeland Security.

Ron So while what you post "may" come to pass,
Ron I don't see it as necessarily set in stone as yet.

By the way, where are you getting your inside information about the
negotiations for the Angel Flights from? The other person who wrote
about it is one of their active pilots, and he wasn't aware.

Nobody raised the issue of "emergency medical flights" until you did
just now. Does it say that in the TFR? Last I heard on the day I
posted, the FAA was still writing the TFR and it had not been published.
Angel Flights are not usually emergency "Lifeguard" flights are they?
If you mean to suggest that since emergency medical flights will be
allowed, perhaps Angel Flight (hospital transport charity services)
will be able to negotiate an exception also, that certainly does
sound reasonable to me.

But the whole point here is that the government doesn't seem to be
behaving in a generallg reasonable manner in this situation, so far.
I have to wonder why they would allow those Angel Flights, and yet not
allow the three news/traffic helicopter flights, which also seem quite
reasonable. The helicopter flights represent a much more secure situation
than the Angel Flights: the pilots and aircraft are more well known, the
traffic flight schedules are known in advance, and the aircraft can be
secured and inspected more easily. According to the news reports,
these news/traffic guys have also been negotiating for permission to fly,
but they didn't think there was any chance of them winning.
And since it is clearly in the public interest for them to fly,
that's specifically what I was writing about.

Christopher C. Stacy ) wrote:

Angel Flights are not usually emergency "Lifeguard" flights are they?

Not a normal Angel Flight, no, but Angel Flight Northeast does coordinate
Lifeguard missions. These are typically are organ transplant recipients
and their exact departure dates are unknown.

As pilots, we receive a request from AFNE that an individual is on the list
of recipients and the request states the departure and arrival cities. The
request also specifies a travel time limit, usually four to six hours.

We then calculate how long it will take us to arrive and prep the aircraft,
fly to the patient, then fly the patient to the destination city.

AFNE will compile the list and send it the patient. When the patient is
notified of an available organ, s/he starts at the top of the list and
calls for a flight.

Interestingly, at this time there are a few outstanding organ transplant
flights to Boston. I would certainly hope that if an organ becomes
available during this convention, the GA aircraft will have no trouble
transporting the patient to Logan Airport.

--
Peter














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Jeremy Lew wrote:

That FAA link specifically says that the special IFR arrival procedures
are due to the higher than normal anticipated volume of flights, it has
nothing to do with security.

The URL

http://www.faa.gov/NTAP/NTAP04JUN10/SP04023.htm

indicates that special rules are in effect for IFR traffic. It says nothing
about VFR traffic, as far as I can tell. That is, the information at that
URL has no bearing on traffic reporting as such. Presumably, any VFR
restrictions are described elsewhere.

- Andrew

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:06:20 GMT, (Christopher C.
Stacy) wrote:

By the way, where are you getting your inside information about the
negotiations for the Angel Flights from?


Email from AFNE. I would assume that goes to all AFNE members.


Nobody raised the issue of "emergency medical flights" until you did
just now. Does it say that in the TFR?

The actual TFR has not been issued yet. But I am on a mailing list from
representing the FAA New England Safety
Program and what I quoted was in the preliminary wording. There is a
caveat that the TFR is not official until it has been actually published.
Here is the relevant quote from that message:

================================
Additional Restrictions within a 10NMR of BOS:

All aircraft operations are prohibited except for:

1. Law enforcement, military aircraft directly supporting the United
States Secret Service (USSS), emergency medical flights and regularly
scheduled 14 CFR Part 121, 125 and 129 commercial passenger and cargo
aircraft that meet or exceed the Transportation Security Administration’s
(TSA’S) Domestic Security Inspection Program (DSIP) Standards and are
arriving or departing General Edward Lawrence Logan International Airport
(BOS).


UNTIL ACTUAL TFR NOTAM IS ISSUED, RESTRICTIONS, DATES/TIMES, ETC ARE
SUBJECT TO CHANGE
===================================

Last I heard on the day I
posted, the FAA was still writing the TFR and it had not been published.
Angel Flights are not usually emergency "Lifeguard" flights are they?
If you mean to suggest that since emergency medical flights will be
allowed, perhaps Angel Flight (hospital transport charity services)
will be able to negotiate an exception also, that certainly does
sound reasonable to me.



Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)