Jepp no longer in the GA business...?

In article , wrote:
1. You must check the FDC NOTAMs without fail because NACO is not allowed to
chart "T" FDC NOTAMs, whereas Jeppesen selectively charts them. And, just
because a 28-day cycle passes doesn't mean that NACO will now chart such a
NOTAM. They won't.

Good point. Is there any easy way for the general public to access
notams other than through duats? Duats is OK for human use, but it's a
pain if you're trying to automate anything.

One of the problems with FDC notams is there's so much volume, and so
little of it is actually relevant to any flight. It would be nice to
have a system that let you tick of which airports you were interested
in, and it would just gather up the approach plate PDFs and find any
associated FDC notams automatically.

2. You absolutely need to subscribe to the AF/D because NACO provides none of
the important data, such as VGSI limitations, etc, that Jeppesen provides
(sometimes incorrectly, I may add) on its airport pages.

I suppose I've been living dangerously, but I havn't looked at an AFD in
years. When I was a Jepp user, the added info came with the Jepp kit.
Now, I find that I get everything I need to know about an airport from
one or another web site. I can't remember the last time I got someplace
and didn't know something I needed to know in advance.





With those two caveats, you're probably better off with today's NACO charts.
Also, a subscription to NACO's en route charts from Sporty's is probably a
good idea. NACO's en route charts have always been crisper, easier to read
than Jepp's so far as I am concerned.

Roy Smith wrote:



Good point. Is there any easy way for the general public to access
notams other than through duats? Duats is OK for human use, but it's a
pain if you're trying to automate anything.


I don't know of any automated method. But, one of the DUAT vendors, I don't recall
which one off-hand, makes it pretty easy by requesting a single location briefing
and including FDC NOTAMs specific to that location. It you err and include general
FDC NOTAMs you end up with all that mostly useless BS.


One of the problems with FDC notams is there's so much volume, and so
little of it is actually relevant to any flight. It would be nice to
have a system that let you tick of which airports you were interested
in, and it would just gather up the approach plate PDFs and find any
associated FDC notams automatically.

I suppose I've been living dangerously, but I havn't looked at an AFD in
years. When I was a Jepp user, the added info came with the Jepp kit.
Now, I find that I get everything I need to know about an airport from
one or another web site. I can't remember the last time I got someplace
and didn't know something I needed to know in advance.


Give your method a test. Check both Runway 3 at PHLI (Lihue, Hawaii) and Runway 15
at KASE (Aspen, Colorado) and see if you get the VGSI restrictions for both of
those runways. If you do, you likely don't need the AF/D either.

Neither AOPA's nor Aeroplanner airport directories for those two airports provide
that information.

Gary Drescher wrote:


That's my impression too. The main things I still prefer on the Jepp plates
are the highlighting of the final approach navaid pointer, and the more
intuitive profiling of step-down fixes (the diagonal-then-horizontal
descent-and-level-off depiction, as opposed to the diagonal-only line that
NACO draws).

If you condition yourself to look at the minimum altitudes; i.e., with the line
drawn under them, your brain adapts to the NACO charts quite well, even after
being a heavy user of Jepp charts. I flew a career with Jepps, and find NACO
charts just as good for my occasional use today.

Give your method a test. Check both Runway 3 at PHLI (Lihue, Hawaii) and Runway 15
at KASE (Aspen, Colorado) and see if you get the VGSI restrictions for both of
those runways. If you do, you likely don't need the AF/D either.

Did you mean PLIH? What's VGSI? If I didn't get the VGSI restrictions for an
airport, I wouldn't even know what I didn't have.

Dave

wrote in message ...

How do you know all this inside thinking by the folks at Jeppesen?


I don't, of course. But that does not mean that I can't make an educated
guess as to what is going on. I will bet that my points are pretty close to
what Jeppesen was thinking -- far closer than the assumed "what were they
thinking" random business decision....

Just because companies have thought about things doesn't
mean they got it right (and I really DO know from
experience!).

My local pilot shop was selling 200 packs of CA charts
per month at $35 (or so) each. There were never any
left at the end of the month so I guess that wasn't an issue.
How many of those people will buy a subscription? Not
many is my guess, they'll just buy NOS instead. Across
the whole country that looks like significant revenue to
me.

So I still think this was a dumb decision, even given your list
of possible reasons why they may have made it.

John

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

wrote in message ...

How do you know all this inside thinking by the folks at Jeppesen?


I don't, of course. But that does not mean that I can't make an educated
guess as to what is going on. I will bet that my points are pretty close
to
what Jeppesen was thinking -- far closer than the assumed "what were they
thinking" random business decision....

"John Harper" wrote in
news:1086982699.64889@sj-nntpcache-3:

Just because companies have thought about things doesn't
mean they got it right (and I really DO know from
experience!).

My local pilot shop was selling 200 packs of CA charts
per month at $35 (or so) each. There were never any
left at the end of the month so I guess that wasn't an issue.
How many of those people will buy a subscription? Not
many is my guess, they'll just buy NOS instead. Across
the whole country that looks like significant revenue to
me.

So I still think this was a dumb decision, even given your list
of possible reasons why they may have made it.

John

"C J Campbell" wrote in
message ...

wrote in message
...

How do you know all this inside thinking by the folks at Jeppesen?


I don't, of course. But that does not mean that I can't make an
educated guess as to what is going on. I will bet that my points are
pretty close
to
what Jeppesen was thinking -- far closer than the assumed "what were
they thinking" random business decision....





My local pilot shop told me yesterday that Jeppesen is going to start
supplying the Airway Express packs again.

There has been a big increase in subscription prices. I just got my
renewal form from Jeppesen and the increase is over 25%. Prior to this
year, the highest annual increase was 6% and most years it was between 3
to 5%.

Jeppesen has cheapened the Airway Express subscription. One of the things
I liked about it was that it was a complete replacement of the old pack.
Now, they've divided it into two parts. Part I is all the informational
pages AND the enroute charts. These are replaced only as needed via
specific page update. The approach plates are in part II which is
completely replaced every 8 weeks.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:


In the past, I always had a chart subscription direct with NOS and will
likely do so again, but for now I am buying as needed at the local FBO
and that is working fine so far and they maintain a decent selection and
inventory.


I did my original training with Jepp, and used them for a bunch of
years. I wasted a huge amount of time doing the revision filing thing,
then spent a bit more money and got a Jepp Express subscription which
killed more trees, but saved a lot of time.

A while ago, I wasn't flying much and let my Jepp subscription lapse.
When I picked up again, I decided to go with NOS/NACO/whatever, if only
to force myself to become proficient at reading their charts. I still
think Jepp does a better approach plate, but the new style NOS charts
with the briefing strip are a big improvement over what they used to be.

I agree. I had a few of the old ones and the new style is markedly
better. I really like the short-hand missed approach instructions.


The recent availability of on-line vector PDF charts sold me for good.
The convenience and cost just can't be beat. I print out what I want,
when I want it, and pick up the en-routes at the FBO once in a while.

I still like having a full region when the weather is low. Just never
know what airport might be best for an alternate and I'd hate to not
have the chart I need.


Matt

Roy Smith wrote:

In article , wrote:

1. You must check the FDC NOTAMs without fail because NACO is not allowed to
chart "T" FDC NOTAMs, whereas Jeppesen selectively charts them. And, just
because a 28-day cycle passes doesn't mean that NACO will now chart such a
NOTAM. They won't.


Good point. Is there any easy way for the general public to access
notams other than through duats? Duats is OK for human use, but it's a
pain if you're trying to automate anything.

One of the problems with FDC notams is there's so much volume, and so
little of it is actually relevant to any flight. It would be nice to
have a system that let you tick of which airports you were interested
in, and it would just gather up the approach plate PDFs and find any
associated FDC notams automatically.


2. You absolutely need to subscribe to the AF/D because NACO provides none of
the important data, such as VGSI limitations, etc, that Jeppesen provides
(sometimes incorrectly, I may add) on its airport pages.


I suppose I've been living dangerously, but I havn't looked at an AFD in
years. When I was a Jepp user, the added info came with the Jepp kit.
Now, I find that I get everything I need to know about an airport from
one or another web site. I can't remember the last time I got someplace
and didn't know something I needed to know in advance.

I've been doing the same. I always carry the AOPA airport guide, but I
realize it isn't the same as the AF/D.


Matt

Dave Butler wrote:


Give your method a test. Check both Runway 3 at PHLI (Lihue, Hawaii)
and Runway 15
at KASE (Aspen, Colorado) and see if you get the VGSI restrictions for
both of
those runways. If you do, you likely don't need the AF/D either.


Did you mean PLIH? What's VGSI? If I didn't get the VGSI restrictions
for an airport, I wouldn't even know what I didn't have.

Dave


I hadn't heard the term either, but according to this article
(http://www.jeppesen.com/download/aopa/nov99aopa.pdf)
it is just a new term for VASI or PAPI.


Matt