Commercial precision landings

I'm taking my 2nd stab at my commercial checkride in a couple days.
Last week, I got through the Oral exam fine. We first flew my
instructor's Bonanza for the complex pattern work. Didn't do too bad on
the soft-field stuff, but I sailed right past my short-field mark by
about 300 feet. We then tried a short approach. Not even the 180 deg
accuracy landing. Just make the runway. Well, after several laps of
dropping the gear abeam the numbers, I did it again & came up well
short of the runway.
Pink slip.
I've gone up with my instructor to work on both accuracy landings, but
can't seem to hit them consistently. Any advice? Any examiners care to
tell how much "fudge" factor they may allow if I'm a little short or
long? If I am, can I request another try at it?
I haven't even had the chance to demonstrate the airwork in my Cherokee
yet (which I think will go much better). I'm hoping the DE will let me
do that stuff first & save the complex for last. But, since the complex
is what I failed the first time, I don't know if we have to complete
that first.
My CFI says I fly just fine, and I'm starting to feel more comfortable
in the Bo (only 7 hours so far). I've got 160+ in the Cherokee & 450
total. I'm just psyching myself out over 2 little landings.
Ugh.

wrote:
I'm taking my 2nd stab at my commercial checkride in a couple days.
Last week, I got through the Oral exam fine. We first flew my
instructor's Bonanza for the complex pattern work. Didn't do too bad on
the soft-field stuff, but I sailed right past my short-field mark by
about 300 feet. We then tried a short approach. Not even the 180 deg
accuracy landing. Just make the runway. Well, after several laps of
dropping the gear abeam the numbers, I did it again & came up well
short of the runway.


With the Bo and a short approach put the gear down no later than
midfield. Full flaps, power off. Turn base at the approach end, speed
no more than 90 mph, assuming you and the FAA man on board. One
sweeping turn to final. You can't land short if you don't go past the
end of the runway. Much better to roll off the end at a slow speed than
stall it in short. You'll still only need 1000 feet of runway if you
keep the speed to 85 mph on the downwind to base.

wrote

My CFI says I fly just fine, and I'm starting to feel more comfortable
in the Bo (only 7 hours so far). I've got 160+ in the Cherokee & 450
total. I'm just psyching myself out over 2 little landings.
Ugh.

I don't know what everyone else thinks, but that does not seem like very
much time to transition into a Bo, to me.

Perhaps your instructor rushed you to the test, a little bit.

Nothing like practice. Good practice, that is. g
--
Jim in NC

Lands are all about controlling speed, the right speed. 1.3
Vs(x) for the weight you're actually flying. You didn't say
what model Bonanza, but an A36 can be 800 pounds under
certificated GW, or 25% under. You must reduce your
approach speed by the proper amount or you will float
forever. Beech does publish excellent TO and Landing graphs
with speed adjustments.
You can fly a few knots, not more than 5, faster which will
give you a steeper descent and then you can use the extra
speed to slow down to get a better glide. If you are using
best glide speed there is nothing you can do to improve your
approach without adding power.

You are likely flying too fast and too wide on downwind.
You are also probably watching your gauges and airspeed as
you configure the Bonanza for the approach, do it by sound
and feel and watch the runway for relative motion (drift and
glide path) and you should do fine.

Remember, you will get a landing gear failure and it may
come in the pattern with a simulated engine failure. Make
sure you know the procedure and have checked during the
pre-flight that the gear handle can be un-stowed [sometimes
the spar cover is installed over the handle]. But also
remember that it take 50 turns to get the gear down and you
only have so much time. If he gives you a simulated engine
failure and then the gear fails, exercise your judgment,
tell him that in a real case you'd land gear up rather than
risk a crash while trying to crank the gear. Then add power
and go-around, crank the gear on downwind to show him you
know how. Sometimes an examiner will give you a task to see
if you have fixated on the checkride and not the safety of
the flight.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


wrote in message
oups.com...
| I'm taking my 2nd stab at my commercial checkride in a
couple days.
| Last week, I got through the Oral exam fine. We first flew
my
| instructor's Bonanza for the complex pattern work. Didn't
do too bad on
| the soft-field stuff, but I sailed right past my
short-field mark by
| about 300 feet. We then tried a short approach. Not even
the 180 deg
| accuracy landing. Just make the runway. Well, after
several laps of
| dropping the gear abeam the numbers, I did it again & came
up well
| short of the runway.
| Pink slip.
| I've gone up with my instructor to work on both accuracy
landings, but
| can't seem to hit them consistently. Any advice? Any
examiners care to
| tell how much "fudge" factor they may allow if I'm a
little short or
| long? If I am, can I request another try at it?
| I haven't even had the chance to demonstrate the airwork
in my Cherokee
| yet (which I think will go much better). I'm hoping the DE
will let me
| do that stuff first & save the complex for last. But,
since the complex
| is what I failed the first time, I don't know if we have
to complete
| that first.
| My CFI says I fly just fine, and I'm starting to feel more
comfortable
| in the Bo (only 7 hours so far). I've got 160+ in the
Cherokee & 450
| total. I'm just psyching myself out over 2 little
landings.
| Ugh.
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
If he gives you a simulated engine failure and then the gear fails,
exercise your judgment, tell him that in a real case you'd land gear
up rather than risk a crash while trying to crank the gear.

I don't know about you, Jim, but if I was working a real engine
failure, I'm not sure I'd have the presense of mind to even notice if
the gear down light came on or not :-)

Been there, you notice. You may ignore it, but you should
notice.



"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| If he gives you a simulated engine failure and then the
gear fails,
| exercise your judgment, tell him that in a real case
you'd land gear
| up rather than risk a crash while trying to crank the
gear.
|
| I don't know about you, Jim, but if I was working a real
engine
| failure, I'm not sure I'd have the presense of mind to
even notice if
| the gear down light came on or not :-)

In article 4B6Fg.4479$SZ3.926@dukeread04,
"Jim Macklin" wrote:

Lands are all about controlling speed, the right speed. 1.3
Vs(x) for the weight you're actually flying.

Remember that Vsx gear down is about 15-20 mph slower than Vsx gear up.
Look it up in the charts.

You didn't say
what model Bonanza, but an A36 can be 800 pounds under
certificated GW, or 25% under. You must reduce your
approach speed by the proper amount or you will float
forever. Beech does publish excellent TO and Landing graphs
with speed adjustments.

Landing weight = w2
Max gross weight =w1
Stall speed landing weight, landing config = Vs1
Stall speed at max gross weight, landing config = Vs

[sqrt (w2/w1)*Vs] = Vs1

You can fly a few knots, not more than 5, faster which will
give you a steeper descent and then you can use the extra
speed to slow down to get a better glide. If you are using
best glide speed there is nothing you can do to improve your
approach without adding power.

You are likely flying too fast and too wide on downwind.
You are also probably watching your gauges and airspeed as
you configure the Bonanza for the approach, do it by sound
and feel and watch the runway for relative motion (drift and
glide path) and you should do fine.

Remember, you will get a landing gear failure and it may
come in the pattern with a simulated engine failure. Make
sure you know the procedure and have checked during the
pre-flight that the gear handle can be un-stowed [sometimes
the spar cover is installed over the handle]. But also
remember that it take 50 turns to get the gear down and you
only have so much time. If he gives you a simulated engine
failure and then the gear fails, exercise your judgment,
tell him that in a real case you'd land gear up rather than
risk a crash while trying to crank the gear. Then add power
and go-around, crank the gear on downwind to show him you
know how. Sometimes an examiner will give you a task to see
if you have fixated on the checkride and not the safety of
the flight.

Jim, is there any speed that is best to fly when cranking the gear down
by hand?

Roy Smith wrote:
I don't know about you, Jim, but if I was working a real engine
failure, I'm not sure I'd have the presense of mind to even notice if
the gear down light came on or not :-)


Oh, you'll see it. You just won't care. G



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

As others have mentioned, speed control and a tight pattern. I'd rather be
high and tight, guaranteed to make the runway and allowing a slip as an
option, low and wide doesn't leave you that option. Explaining your
reasoning, as long as it's safe and correct, shows commercial knowledge.

My commercial ride was the last ride that I was able to take with our local
DE. He's a real parrot on checkrides and a great teacher. When we were
about 5ft agl on the 180 degree power off spot landing, he asked if we'd
make the designated touchdown spot. I responded confidently that we would
because if we were short the ride would be over. Then he asked what options
I had to extend the glide "just in case"... Prop I said, pull the prop and
reduce the disc drag. "Ever done it?" he asks. "Nope" by that time his
hand was already on the prop control and it was coming back. We floated an
extra distance, I can't remember how far, but he laughed and said "See how
that works? But think before you do it, you need oil pressure in a single"
And with that our ride ended on a fun and informative note.

Jim

JM makes a good point.
A go-around or an engine out approach are great times for a DE to pull the
gear circuit breaker while you're occupied with other things.

One thing that our DE, and I as well, try to drive into every commercial and
or complex student is to keep your hand next to the gear handle until you
get the "gear up" or "gear down" indications. It will serve as a physical
reminder to turn your eyes back to the indicators before your hand is
returned to service. Some will say to leave it on the handle, but those
who've broken their gear handles off when hitting turbulence will tell you
to just put your hand "near" the handle.
Jim B