piper cargo twin crashes in eastern washington

Just heard about this on the morning news. Apparently pilot with 4 months
with the company had trouble maintaining altitude and attempted a landing at
the Easton, WA airstrip. It sounds like he came up short and crashed into
some trees, then cartwheeled and burst into flames.

This is tragic, and I have to wonder if he should have gone for the freeway,
which is also nearby. My instructor for BFR grilled me on what alternative
sites are available if it become apparent you aren't going to make your
emergency touch down point.

My deepest condolences to the family and friends of the pilot.

I was planning to fly to Bozeman, MT next weekend for fishing, but this has
my wife saying a definite no-way to my flying out there. She does have
somewhat of a point though. I just got checkout out for my complex rating,
and will have at best, 4 hours of time in type as PIC before going on this
trip.

--
Thanks,

Steve

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

I was planning to fly to Bozeman, MT next weekend for fishing, but this has
my wife saying a definite no-way to my flying out there. She does have
somewhat of a point though. I just got checkout out for my complex rating,
and will have at best, 4 hours of time in type as PIC before going on this
trip.

What airplane?
Statistically, you are more likely to have an incident with less than 10
hours in type, but I think it depends more on total time and familiarity
with other aircraft. However, as you mentioned, you are new to complex,
there are factors you may not yet be familiar with.

Hi John,

It is a piper Arrow with retractable gear and constant speed prop.

I have 4 hours as training for my complex rating, and will have an
additional 4-6 hours on Monday because I will be taking it out to practice
most of the day.

My total time flying is 120 hours, 100 of which happened 20 years ago. The
good thing is that I am much more thorough and aware of my own mortality
than I was when younger.

Also, the other person going with me has his complex rating also, so we will
have to pilots in the plane.
"john smith" wrote in message
...
I was planning to fly to Bozeman, MT next weekend for fishing, but this
has
my wife saying a definite no-way to my flying out there. She does have
somewhat of a point though. I just got checkout out for my complex
rating,
and will have at best, 4 hours of time in type as PIC before going on
this
trip.

What airplane?
Statistically, you are more likely to have an incident with less than 10
hours in type, but I think it depends more on total time and familiarity
with other aircraft. However, as you mentioned, you are new to complex,
there are factors you may not yet be familiar with.

In article ,
"steve" wrote:

It is a piper Arrow with retractable gear and constant speed prop.

What year model is it?
Is it a 180 or 200 HP model?
Hershey bar or taper wing?
T-tail or straight tail?

Download the Piper Cherokee and Arrow document
http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/highlights.html

This is a good review document for the PA28 series

I have 4 hours as training for my complex rating, and will have an
additional 4-6 hours on Monday because I will be taking it out to practice
most of the day.

Go to http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/
Source of lots of good refresher material

My total time flying is 120 hours, 100 of which happened 20 years ago. The
good thing is that I am much more thorough and aware of my own mortality
than I was when younger.

Essentially, you are starting over and can be considered a low-time
pilot. Although you have over 100 hours, which is probably the minimum
required by insurance for checkout, all your experience is very recent,
by your own admission. The Arrow will take you more than 10 hours be
really comfortable with.
It has a high sink rate with the power off. The main landing gear is
six-inches shorter than a fixed gear Archer, meaning that you have to
manage your energy on short final to make a smooth arrival. You do not
want to drop it in.
There are two ways to look at your proposed trip.
One, you have to try new things to learn. There is nothing like flying
off to a new destination in a new/different airplane.
Two, what you don't know can kill you. Get some more time in the
airplane, then take your wife.
The checkout requirement for the Turbo Arrow IV belonging to the club I
am a member of has the following checkout minimum:

150+ hours total, 25+ hours retract, 10+ hours (or 5+ dual) make and
model and complex endorsement required.

Also, the other person going with me has his complex rating also, so we will
have two pilots in the plane.

That can be both good and bad.
How much time in the Arrow does the other pilot have?
How much total complex time does the other pilot have?
Two pilots, no cockpit resource management training, right?
Prior to flight, be sure to define each persons roles and
responsibilities during the flight.

It is a 2200HP Hershey bare wing and straight tail.

PA28/R-200

Thanks to everyone for your input and recommendations. The other pilot and I
will definitely make sure we both go through all checklists and CCGUMPS
independently to ensure we don't have to point broken fingers at each other
later.

The go/no go is now based on weather outlook. I am just starting to learn
IFR and will cancel our flight if there is even a hint of rain, clouds, or
thunderstorms during the 4 day trip on the entire route. I'll have plenty of
opportunities for future trips and already have tickets on Alaska Airlines
in case we do cancel.

Better to be safe than sorry.


Again, my deepest sympathies to those of you who knew the pilot in eastern
Washington.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"steve" wrote:

It is a piper Arrow with retractable gear and constant speed prop.

What year model is it?
Is it a 180 or 200 HP model?
Hershey bar or taper wing?
T-tail or straight tail?

Download the Piper Cherokee and Arrow document
http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/highlights.html

This is a good review document for the PA28 series

I have 4 hours as training for my complex rating, and will have an
additional 4-6 hours on Monday because I will be taking it out to
practice
most of the day.

Go to http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/
Source of lots of good refresher material

My total time flying is 120 hours, 100 of which happened 20 years ago.
The
good thing is that I am much more thorough and aware of my own mortality
than I was when younger.

Essentially, you are starting over and can be considered a low-time
pilot. Although you have over 100 hours, which is probably the minimum
required by insurance for checkout, all your experience is very recent,
by your own admission. The Arrow will take you more than 10 hours be
really comfortable with.
It has a high sink rate with the power off. The main landing gear is
six-inches shorter than a fixed gear Archer, meaning that you have to
manage your energy on short final to make a smooth arrival. You do not
want to drop it in.
There are two ways to look at your proposed trip.
One, you have to try new things to learn. There is nothing like flying
off to a new destination in a new/different airplane.
Two, what you don't know can kill you. Get some more time in the
airplane, then take your wife.
The checkout requirement for the Turbo Arrow IV belonging to the club I
am a member of has the following checkout minimum:

150+ hours total, 25+ hours retract, 10+ hours (or 5+ dual) make and
model and complex endorsement required.

Also, the other person going with me has his complex rating also, so we
will
have two pilots in the plane.

That can be both good and bad.
How much time in the Arrow does the other pilot have?
How much total complex time does the other pilot have?
Two pilots, no cockpit resource management training, right?
Prior to flight, be sure to define each persons roles and
responsibilities during the flight.

"steve" wrote

It is a 2200HP Hershey bare wing and straight tail.

Damn, that must be one powerful HP additive you are putting in your fuel!
g
--
Jim in NC

"steve" wrote in message
. ..

My total time flying is 120 hours, 100 of which happened 20 years ago. The
good thing is that I am much more thorough and aware of my own mortality
than I was when younger.

I would think that this might be a potential problem given a recent checkout
in a complex airplane. (For perspective, I have about 30 hours in an PA-28R
and 240 total hours which have been spaced over fifteen years, so we have a
bit in common.) But, you've got an extra pilot with you which seems
reasonably sufficient.

The only real difference other than possibly switching tanks is during
approach and landing, right? As long as BOTH of you don't forget the GUMPS
check, it seems like it ought to be a piece of cake.

Personally, typical go/no-go issues aside, I'd have a difficult time opting
out of this flight.

-c

"gatt" wrote

I would think that this might be a potential problem given a recent
checkout
in a complex airplane. (For perspective, I have about 30 hours in an
PA-28R
and 240 total hours which have been spaced over fifteen years, so we have
a
bit in common.) But, you've got an extra pilot with you which seems
reasonably sufficient.

As long as he guards against the "I thought you did it" trap, or the "you
were the PIC, so I didn't want to question your decision" trap.

Double check each other, completely, all of the way down the checklist,
right?
--
Jim in NC

He was westbound, Spokane to Seattle, so he wasn't into the mountains yet.
Nothing has been said about an engine out, but "unable to maintain altitude"
doesn't make sense if both engines were running...and there certainly wasn't
any ice in Eastern Washington that night.

AirPac is a good outfit, great people to work for.

Bob Gardner
"steve" wrote in message
...
Just heard about this on the morning news. Apparently pilot with 4 months
with the company had trouble maintaining altitude and attempted a landing
at the Easton, WA airstrip. It sounds like he came up short and crashed
into some trees, then cartwheeled and burst into flames.

This is tragic, and I have to wonder if he should have gone for the
freeway, which is also nearby. My instructor for BFR grilled me on what
alternative sites are available if it become apparent you aren't going to
make your emergency touch down point.

My deepest condolences to the family and friends of the pilot.

I was planning to fly to Bozeman, MT next weekend for fishing, but this
has my wife saying a definite no-way to my flying out there. She does have
somewhat of a point though. I just got checkout out for my complex rating,
and will have at best, 4 hours of time in type as PIC before going on this
trip.

--
Thanks,

Steve

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

Bob Gardner wrote:
He was westbound, Spokane to Seattle, so he wasn't into the mountains yet.
Nothing has been said about an engine out, but "unable to maintain altitude"
doesn't make sense if both engines were running...and there certainly wasn't
any ice in Eastern Washington that night.

AirPac is a good outfit, great people to work for.

I've flown with the this pilot a couple of times. He and his friend,
who I've also flown with, joined AirPac a few months ago.

I understand from the news that AirPac had another crash a few months
ago.