Navy enlistment questions

(Atcrossroad) wrote in message


.. I think you have some misconceptions, a Ph.D. is rarely a
plus when one wants an engineering job in mat. sci./metallurgy. Maybe
in some other fields, but in mat. sci. Ph.D.s are doomed to be lab or
paper writing rats. I'd rather be on shop's floor.


If you would have included the pertinent information in your
original post it is unlikely I would have responded as I have never
worked with anyone with your specific situation. I have spent 20
years working with scientists and engineers in the EE, ME, AeroE, and
Physics fields. I have worked with a few Systems Engineers but have
not noticed the problems you state. I stand by my statement that in
your case, enlisting in the Navy would be a bizarre solution.

BB

(BlackBeard) wrote:

: Yep, they just can't stand all the green fields and the huge lake
:and perfect weather. Fishing, sailing, skiiing et al. on the lake,
:that's the pamphlet I saw ...

Geez, I'd think that would scare a bubblehead off! What do you guys
know about sunlight, after all? :-)

22yrs in the Navy. Go for it.You will enjoy it. Try the SeaBees.



http://www.v1rotate.com
View this thread: http://www.v1rotate.com/portal/forum...threadid=90627

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote:

:I know the China Lake folks are usually looking for engineers because they
:can't find enough people who want to live there.

And if you like 'outdoors' types of activities, the Lake really isn't
that bad a place to live at all. If you're a city type and want to go
clubbing and such, you'd probably be very unhappy there.

--
You have never lived until you have almost died.
Life has a special meaning that the protected
will never know.

If you can't find an acceptable in engineering with a PHD, don't bother
trying to make "it" in the Navy. Try the Airforce.


"Atcrossroad" wrote in message
om...
It's quite loser's story but, hell, I'll not fall lower by telling it.


I've made a big mistake in my life, namely, I've got a Ph.D. in
engineering from a second tier graduate program. Since graduation, I
had a string of sh*t pay, no benefits, long hours, dead-end postdocs
("permanently" temporary research slave jobs for 50% of the fresh (and
not so fresh) Ph.D.s who cannot find a real job). Well, me (and many,
many others) had/have no other options. During postdocing (brain
numbing, overall pointless, BS peddling to cheat a buck from Uncle Sam
kind of a job), I have developed a strong aversion to the (academic)
research trade. I cannot stand it (even in an exchange for a
theoretical lofty paycheck). Had I liked it, I would have roughed
through everything, but...research is for the single-minded zombies
with talents of a used car salesman. And it's not me.
I really like engineering, but with my degree and experience, entry
level engineering jobs are reliably out of my reach. I am
overqualified for entry-level jobs (too old also), and I am
unqualified for experience-only jobs. 1 year of unsuccessful applying
for all kinds of engineering jobs is enough to realize that there is
nothing for me in the "real world". Do not get me wrong, I have good
GPAs (3.9 both in undergrad and grad schools), I have 10 or so
publications in the premiere science journals, I have a good research
resume and good recommendations. But all that is not enough to land an
engineering job these days.

What to do?

I do not have a formal degree in EE, but I do like electronics and I
do know a lot about it. It's my true passion. I'd like to pursue a
career in electronics (desirably engineering, but technician jobs are
OK too - more difficult to offshore). It happens that I like sea, I
like (to learn about, at least) navy, ships, ship's weaponry, naval
history. I would like to try something different, new and manly like a
military service. Clock is ticking. In 4 years (I'm 30 y.o. now), I'll
not have a military option. So, I am considering enlisting to navy.
Local recruiters are not making their quotas, I was forgiven my 10
extra pounds. I think I'll be able to pass physical. I have the right
attitude to get through a boot camp too. Also, I am a permanent
resident i.e. an officer school is not an option (I am not sure if I
would be allowed to enter an officer school in such a ripe age,
anyway).

My questions:

1) Is 30 y.o. is too old to be a sailor? I know navy is OK with 30y.o.
sailors, but..will I look like a freak among early 20th crowd?
2) Have you ever seen a Ph.D. enlisting as a sailor? Do you think it
will be better for me not to mention my Ph.D. at all: a) to avoid
future pecking along the line "let's see how smart you really are" b)
not to be an unofficial poster child for a loser. How thoroughly
background check is done? Will such an omission be counted against me
if discovered?
3) What is the most challenging electronics field in navy? What is its
rate? Is it open for non citizens (Hopefully, I'll be a citizen in 2
years or so)? Ideally, I would like something involving little bit of
design (I hope to pass PE exam in the future, and I need a design
experience to be registered as a professional engineer).
4) Assuming that I will like the service, will be good at it, will get
my citizenship and will decide to become an officer: a) what is max
age for applicants to an officer school? b) will I be required to
fulfill my enlistment obligations prior to applying to a school?
5) Are those with earned college degrees qualified for the Navy
college funds?
6) In army, enlisted college graduates fresh out of a boot camp get
higher rank than HS graduates do. Does anything like that exist in
navy?

Thanks to anyone who'll bother to reply.

Atcrossroad wrote:
It's quite loser's story but, hell, I'll not fall lower by telling it.


I've made a big mistake in my life, namely, I've got a Ph.D. in
engineering from a second tier graduate program.

What to do?

I do not have a formal degree in EE, but I do like electronics and I
do know a lot about it. It's my true passion. I'd like to pursue a
career in electronics (desirably engineering, but technician jobs are
OK too – more difficult to offshore). It happens that I like sea, I
like (to learn about, at least) navy, ships, ship's weaponry, naval
history. I would like to try something different, new and manly like a
military service. Clock is ticking. In 4 years (I'm 30 y.o. now), I'll
not have a military option. So, I am considering enlisting to navy.
Local recruiters are not making their quotas, I was forgiven my 10
extra pounds. I think I'll be able to pass physical. I have the right
attitude to get through a boot camp too. Also, I am a permanent
resident i.e. an officer school is not an option (I am not sure if I
would be allowed to enter an officer school in such a ripe age,
anyway).

My questions:

1) Is 30 y.o. is too old to be a sailor? I know navy is OK with 30y.o.
sailors, but….will I look like a freak among early 20th crowd?

In the reserves, we get a lot of 30-somethings coming into the ranks, as
they wrestle with exactly the same issues your are. Including more than
one with a PhD.

2) Have you ever seen a Ph.D. enlisting as a sailor?

Yes, in the reserves. On active duty we had a Chief who had earned his
PhD at some point in his career.

Do you think it
will be better for me not to mention my Ph.D. at all: a) to avoid
future pecking along the line "let's see how smart you really are" b)
not to be an unofficial poster child for a loser. How thoroughly
background check is done? Will such an omission be counted against me
if discovered?

No need to hide it. Be proud but not arrogant.

3) What is the most challenging electronics field in navy? What is its
rate?

Nuke power.

Is it open for non citizens (Hopefully, I'll be a citizen in 2
years or so)?

Probably not.

Ideally, I would like something involving little bit of
design (I hope to pass PE exam in the future, and I need a design
experience to be registered as a professional engineer).

Design? Maybe the "McGyver" sort. But I am a firm believer than
designers who have used the equipment are better than those who haven't.

4) Assuming that I will like the service, will be good at it, will get
my citizenship and will decide to become an officer: a) what is max
age for applicants to an officer school? b) will I be required to
fulfill my enlistment obligations prior to applying to a school?

Not sure on max age. You will not need to fulfill your enlisted
requirement prior.

5) Are those with earned college degrees qualified for the Navy
college funds?

Yes. I used my GI Bill to fund my PhD. You could use it to fund getting
your pilot's license or A&P license also. Attend school for Real Estate
license. Go to Divinity School. etc. Certain restrictions apply.


6) In army, enlisted college graduates fresh out of a boot camp get
higher rank than HS graduates do. Does anything like that exist in
navy?

Yes, talk to recruiter.

The Navy Reserve is a great way to jump in. you'll find a real
smorgasbord of folks civilian career-wise in there. In my unit we have
college students (Officer), cops (Es)wall street stock brokers (Petty
Officer) and small business owners (Chiefs) all working together.
Fantastic way to network. you can segue into active duty. Come in at an
advanced rate. Give it a look.

Sounds like you're not married. I'd cut your past loose and jump in both
feet and sign up for something risky and dangerous, to take you out of
your comfort zone. Full steam ahead, adrenaline, all that stuff. You can
sit in a chair and let your ass get fat later. Do the hard thing, cause
its the most fun!

With your qualifcations , An Officer in the SeaBee,s . Go for it . Great
Career .

"Atcrossroad" wrote...

1) Is 30 y.o. is too old to be a sailor? I know navy is OK with 30y.o.
sailors, but..will I look like a freak among early 20th crowd?

Nope. You won't be the first or the last...


2) Have you ever seen a Ph.D. enlisting as a sailor? Do you think it
will be better for me not to mention my Ph.D. at all: a) to avoid
future pecking along the line "let's see how smart you really are" b)
not to be an unofficial poster child for a loser. How thoroughly
background check is done? Will such an omission be counted against me
if discovered?

I've known a few officers who had PhD's prior to signing up, and several
enlisted guys with Masters' degrees, but no enlisted PhD's.

Don't lie or omit any relevant facts -- it will haunt you forever.


3) What is the most challenging electronics field in navy? What is its
rate? Is it open for non citizens (Hopefully, I'll be a citizen in 2
years or so)? Ideally, I would like something involving little bit of
design (I hope to pass PE exam in the future, and I need a design
experience to be registered as a professional engineer).

If you want to get into design, I think the Air Force is the better choice.
They have dedicated Science and Engineering corps in their officer ranks, but
the Navy does not. The biggest problem would be citizenship -- most or all of
them require security clearances that are not available to non-citizens. Even
the enlisted jobs that deal with electronics require security clearances...


4) Assuming that I will like the service, will be good at it, will get
my citizenship and will decide to become an officer: a) what is max
age for applicants to an officer school? b) will I be required to
fulfill my enlistment obligations prior to applying to a school?

I would not recommend you enlist for a job that does not require a security
clearance. You'll likely be less happy than you are now. Wait until you get
your citizenship.


5) Are those with earned college degrees qualified for the Navy
college funds?
6) In army, enlisted college graduates fresh out of a boot camp get
higher rank than HS graduates do. Does anything like that exist in
navy?

Check with a local recruiter for actual options available to you now.
Requirements change often...

Also talk specifically with an Officer Programs recruiter. The regular
recruiters will often not talk up the officer programs because of the quotas you
already mentioned...

(Atcrossroad) wrote in
om:


I do not have a formal degree in EE, but I do like electronics and I
do know a lot about it. It's my true passion. I'd like to pursue a
career in electronics (desirably engineering, but technician jobs are
OK too – more difficult to offshore). It happens that I like sea, I
like (to learn about, at least) navy, ships, ship's weaponry, naval
history. I would like to try something different, new and manly like a
military service.

I have worked for and at several Navy labs, including Naval Surface
Warfare Center Philadelphia, Dahlgren, and Port Hueneme. Assuming
you can get a clearance, you could get a job that would have zero
chance of off-shoring.

As far as enlisted, I had about a dozen working for me at Pt Hueneme --
these were all Fire Control Technicians who had completed their
"prescribed sea tours" (need to check but IIRC around 4 years these
days), except for the chiefs of course. While they weren't there
primarily to do design, they did work in some design areas, especially
in maintainability and useability. In other words, in system engineering
tasks. One of my guys (an FC2) got selected for enlisted commissioning
program. He had already completed 2 yrs via tuition aid, and completed
his degree at U Minn and then got commissioned.

scott s.
..

"Atcrossroad" wrote in message
om...
It's quite loser's story but, hell, I'll not fall lower by telling it.

snip-----snip-----snip-----snip-----snip-----snip-----snip-----

A guy I used to see fishing on the beach at Cape Hatteras NC had an advanced
degree in engineering (masters I believe) and was in the Coast Guard.He had
a similar story, school, several jobs he didn't like. He joined the Coast
Guard at about 30 years of age I believe. He was in the Aviation Maintenance
field. The last I heard of him he was a Chief Warrant Officer. The Coast
Guard is small enough that the senior enlisted are often given small
commands, etc. You could be a big fish there, even if it is a small pond.

I put my 22½ years in the Marines and don't regret it. But the only other
service I would consider would be the Coast Guard.