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Modern aces
Associate asked interesting question. Is there any kind of listing of "modern" jet aces? And are any of those in service today? I'd guess best bet are the Israelis. Elsewhere some are from Vietnam (US, Vietnam, Russian?) and what else? There was air to air fighting at Eritrean-Etiopian war but I'd dare to guess that total losses can be counted with one hand? I'd limit the list to piloted aircraft also (no missiles, drones or choppers). jok |
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Associate asked interesting question.
Is there any kind of listing of "modern" jet aces? And are any of those in service today? I'd guess best bet are the Israelis. Elsewhere some are from Vietnam (US, Vietnam, Russian?) and what else? jok There are several websites and a number of books. The Israelis have over 35 pilots who qualify as ace with scores from 5 to 17. There last ace probably qualfied in the early 1980's. Some of them are certainly still in the reserves if not active duty. Giora Even who scored 17 was still flying reserve fighter missions in the F-16 in his late 50s just a few years ago. There are apparently quite a number of aces in Iran from the war against Iraq. I am not sure how historians or other experts greet their claims which are apparently only recently known in the west. The US had two pilot aces in Vietnam, one Navy and one Air Force each claiming five and three Weapons Officers two Air Force and one Navy. As important as the rear seater is in a two seat fighter aircraft there is to me something a little disengenuous about crediting them as aces. For example both Navy aces flew together as a team. To compare their claims at first glance it seems they downed ten aircraft together and there is a photo of thier aircraft with ten victory markings but in fact together they only destroyed five. Of the Air Forces Weapons Officer aces one scored four with the one pilot ace. The Vietnamese had at least a dozen aces and maybe more. The Vietnamese did include drones in thier victory claims. At least one Vietnamese ace has had his 7 claims studied and there is a corresponding American loss for every claim. I don't think there is a valid claim for a fighter ace since the early 1980s. For Desert Storm and the campaigns over the Balkans the highest total appears to be 3. For the Fleet Air Arm in the Falklands I think the highest score was 4. One last area is the Peruvian aerial drug smuggling interdiction campaign where dozens of aircraft have been shot down. I hardly think this qualifies as air combat though. John Dupre' |
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(JDupre5762) wrote in
: One last area is the Peruvian aerial drug smuggling interdiction campaign where dozens of aircraft have been shot down. I hardly think this qualifies as air combat though. An interesting note on that: http://lacc.fiu.edu/PUBLICATIONS_res...vol6num2/menze l.html "A two year tally by early 1992 indicated that some 124 aircraft had been reported as shot down (out of an estimated total of some 2,000 flights) and things were thought to be going reasonably well until May 1992, when the Peruvian Air Force shot down one of SOUTHCOM's C-130s on a clandestine reconnaissance mission." Regards... |
#4
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The US had two pilot aces in Vietnam, one Navy and one Air Force each
claiming five and three Weapons Officers two Air Force and one Navy. As important as the rear seater is in a two seat fighter aircraft there is to me something a little disengenuous about crediting them as aces. For example both Navy aces flew together as a team. To compare their claims at first glance it seems they downed ten aircraft together and there is a photo of thier aircraft with ten victory markings but in fact together they only destroyed five. Well, the RIO gets the same grave or prison cell if you screw up. It seems only fair he shares the credit for the kills. A good RIO is worth his weight in gold. A fair to middlin' one isn't worth 300 pounds of JP. I've experienced both. I've never seen a publicity shot of the Cunningham/Driscoll jet with ten kills displayed, just the five. R / John |
#5
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Howdy John.
I've never seen a publicity shot of the Cunningham/Driscoll jet with ten kills displayed, just the five. neither have I - if it was painted that way, chances are that it was for a one-time photo op. Cunningham's jet is portrayed in flight at the San Diego Aerospace Museum, trailing a suspended MiG 17 in NVN colors - Duke's bird is painted with five stars, just the way I have seen in VN air war books. v/r Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone. |
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On 10 Jan 2004 02:45:01 GMT, (JDupre5762) wrote:
Certainly the RIO deserves credit. In WWI fighters, especiallly the early ones, the gunner was the man who shot down the enemy aircraft, and he was credited with the kill along with the pilot. Having demonstrated their quick reflexes and immunity to air sickness, some (perhaps many) of these men were re-trained as pilots. (It didn't take long--a few weeks, with due allowance for England's unfriendly flying weather.) all the best -- Dan Ford email: see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
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#10
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To compare their claims at first glance it seems they
downed ten aircraft together and there is a photo of thier aircraft with ten victory markings but in fact together they only destroyed five. This is more than likely the score of all of VF-96 that you're seeing displayed, not just Cunningham and Driscoll's score. From: (Michael) Thanks, that would explain it. I found the photo and it actually shows 8 Vietnamese flags on the right hand splitter plate with Cunningham and Driscoll in their respective seats. John Dupre' |
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