Landing a warrior

jeff wrote:
you guys are gonna stall those things.
I land the warrior at 80 kts and 2 notches of flaps.. 57 kts..no way.....short
final is suppose to be 65 kts in a warrior II ..

An accident waiting to happen...
If you are on the runway at 80 kts, how much forward pressure are you
putting on the yoke to keep the wheels on the ground?

Bob, you must have known my flight instructor. I started my flight
training in warriors in 1984 in Ocean City, NJ. I think they widened
the runway since then. There was almost always a healthy crosswind.
Landings were full flaps just as you describe. Crosswind technique
was crab, then slip and land on the upwind wheel, with full flaps.
Third notch after established on final. I never understood why in a
crosswind people want to go faster. I guess it's whatever you're
comfortable with. Despite my best efforts, I'm still a renter and I
always try to land as slow as safely possible to help wear and tear on
the tired old birds I fly.
Dave
"Bob Gardner" wrote in message news:2mW_a.145947$o%2.62355@sccrnsc02...
Well, I've graduated a lot of students over the years, and to the best of my
knowledge none of them has ever had a landing accident. Normal landings are
full-flap landings, even in a crosswind...minimum touchdown speed is the
key, with anti-xwind controls. Page 5-24 of my Warrior book ("Landing
Performance") is predicated on full flaps, power off, and max braking. The
chart is NOT labeled "short field landing." Page 4-14, under normal
procedures for approach and landing, hedges a bit...still calls for full
flaps and 63, but allows as how enough power should be carried to maintain
the desired speed and approach path (no argument there). No mention of
crosswind technique, but when Boeing Field had a 60 degree xwind at 15-20
knots or so I would call my students and say "Come on down....we're gonna do
some full-flap crosswind landings."

You can do lots of things in a low-wing airplane that would be questionable
in a high-wing airplane.

Did I mention that I was an examiner when I worked at the Piper FBO?

Bob Gardner

I always land my Mooney full stall, horn blaring, yoke to the stops as
the wheels hit. I think its easier in a low wing because you get a
soft cushion as you flare rather than the drop of a high wing.

I've found that using this technique in our Pathfinder -- which is fairly
nose-heavy, having an O-540 6-cylinder engine -- will usually result in a
pronounced nosewheel drop unless you nail it absolutely perfectly. Thus, we
usually land with a little power, at a flatter angle of attack.

This is quite different than the Warrior, which has relatively dainty
landing characteristics by comparison. (Although we still usually landed it
with a bit of power, at a flatter angle, just for better visibility over the
nose. This is a big deal for Mary, at five-foot-nuthin' tall...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Floater? Did you say floater? Just try coming in a bit fast with a well
waxed Grumman without flaps... You can watch 2000 feet of asphalt under
your behind go by at 50 kts. Add some crosswind, and make it fun.

++++++++++++++
Duane MacInnis
Flight Instructor
Cell (604) 454-7415
www.macinnisaviation.com


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Ssq%a.157604$uu5.23645@sccrnsc04...
- floating: i actually had more problems floating in the 172 than the
warrior, go figure.

Me, too.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:Ssq%a.157604$uu5.23645@sccrnsc04...
- floating: i actually had more problems floating in the 172 than the
warrior, go figure.

Me, too.

As my CFI used to say:

"If you float, you've got too much airspeed. Fix it."

A C172 with one person and partial fuel, landed at "book" speeds
instead of weight-adjusted speeds, will float.

Ditto for a Warrior IME

If you really want to see float, try landing a Grumman w/ "5 knots
for Grandma and 5 knots 'cuz I was nervous and I think more speed
is safer" tacked on.

Cheers,
Sydney

"Dan Moos" writes:

Again, these are all landings that my passengers think are
great. I'm just used to getting great results in the cessnas, and
wish to do the same in the warrior.

The 172 floats longer than the Warrior does in the flare -- I'm not
sure why (given the 172's high wings), but it does. The Warrior will
drop sooner and harder, unless you have a little extra energy to ease
it down at the last second (on the bright side, at least it's the
mains and not the nose that drop). I have found two ways to get that
extra energy for a smooth touchdown:

1. Just as the flare is running out and the mains are about to drop,
add a tiny bit of power to ease the plane down.

2. Don't do a gradual roundout like you would in a 172; instead,
continue your descent, at normal approach speed, until just before the
runway, then do a fast and short flare very close to the pavement.

#1 is the easier technique, so you might want to try it first.


Best of luck,


David

PA-28-161 C-FBJO

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

"Bob Gardner" writes:

My Warrior book says 63 knots, but who's counting? Why not full
flaps???? I have a zillion hours instructing in Cherokees/Warriors
and I can't remember ever teaching a student to use two notches for
landing.

Right, always full flaps. Renters might not care, but we owners know
who's paying for the rubber (not to mention any broken runway lights
or bent wings).

I usually have two notches of flaps on long final, and add the third
notch over the fence (which usually pitches me up just enough to get
from 70 kias to 63 kias).


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

"William Plummer" writes:

The PA28-161 POH I had said Vs0 is 44 kts. 1.3 * 44=57, which is
the FAA recommended speed on final approach.

You have to watch airspeed calibration errors near the stall. VSo for
the PA-28-161 at maximum gross weight is 50 kcas (44 kias), and 1.3 *
50 = 65 kcas (63 kias).

That's exactly what my instructor insisted on when I was doing the
short field landings (on a 1500' runway!).

You were fine then, because stall speed is lower that far below
gross weight.


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/