Is Chris Thomas a Real Pilot?

"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: "PAW"
Date: 8/25/2004 1:22 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: osite (RobertR237)
Date: 8/23/2004 8:51 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:



From: " jls"
Date: 8/23/2004 7:10 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

http://www.glcq.com/bush_at_arpc1.htm

I got as far as the ARPC gag. For those who never served during that
time
frame
let me explain. The site said Bush never finished his 6 year
commitment.
The
authour has no idea what that means. During that time ALL males 18
and
over
had
a 6 year obligation unless excused for valid reasons (conscientious
objector,
medical etc). This means if one signed up for 3 years active duty in
the
Army
and completed those 3 years and got out he STILL had 3 years inactive
reserves
before being released. If Bush didn't serve his 6 years in either
Guard,
active
or reserves the remaining time was INACTIVE reserve.

The six year obligation was the same for officers, warrants and
enlisteds.

As an aside retirees have a 10 year inactive reserve obligation upon
retirement.

Think what you want about Bush, but wild accusations and name calling
proves
absoultely nothing.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


On the contrary Dan, I proves a great deal...just not about Bush.


Bob Reed


I hadn't look at it that way. You are correct.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Any of you guys recall NG's with 4 year active reserve commitments in
the
late 60's, early 70's? I don't. Every single NG I knew was on 6 year
ACTIVE
reserve status. I'm sure many of them would have enjoyed getting cut
loose
early too.

Phil

The commitment was a total of 6 years. I know people who did Guard fo 6
years
and and some who did 4 years. Never having done Guard I'm not sure how
they did
it.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Nobody (other than GW Bush) went through flightschool (during that time
period) with a 4 year NG commitment. I served my time, why couldn't Bush
serve his? Why couldn't he maintain flight status? We know he likes to
fly.... at least out to aircraft carriers playing pilot dressup. Gw's
commitment was for 6 years of ACTIVE TANG and he didn't finish it. In the
meantime, men were being drafted and sent to war.

Dan, were you in the service prior to 75?

Phil

As an aside retirees have a 10 year inactive reserve obligation upon
retirement.

Think what you want about Bush, but wild accusations and name calling
proves
absoultely nothing.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


On the contrary Dan, I proves a great deal...just not about Bush.


Bob Reed


I hadn't look at it that way. You are correct.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Any of you guys recall NG's with 4 year active reserve commitments in the
late 60's, early 70's? I don't. Every single NG I knew was on 6 year ACTIVE
reserve status. I'm sure many of them would have enjoyed getting cut loose
early too.

Phil


I seem to remember something along that line but I don't remember the details
of the program. If I recall it was limited to the non-com ranks and was only
for the army NG.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

"RobertR237" wrote in message
...

As an aside retirees have a 10 year inactive reserve obligation upon
retirement.

Think what you want about Bush, but wild accusations and name calling
proves
absoultely nothing.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


On the contrary Dan, I proves a great deal...just not about Bush.


Bob Reed


I hadn't look at it that way. You are correct.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Any of you guys recall NG's with 4 year active reserve commitments in
the
late 60's, early 70's? I don't. Every single NG I knew was on 6 year
ACTIVE
reserve status. I'm sure many of them would have enjoyed getting cut
loose
early too.

Phil


I seem to remember something along that line but I don't remember the
details
of the program. If I recall it was limited to the non-com ranks and was
only
for the army NG.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)


Bob,

Think of the line they would have had if *all* you had to do was a 4 year
active guard hitch to go to *flight school*. Heck, I would have gone in a
heartbeat rather than the SIX years of active duty I got stuck with. Not
that I should complain. I managed to stay out of Vietnam too. They sent me
to Okinawa instead. Anyhow, GW was one lucky guy. Anyone else would have
been yanked into active duty or charged with a crime.

And you're correct. They handled enlisted ranks much different. They could
mix it up... 2 active (draft) 4 inactive, 3 and 3, 4 and 2, or all 6. GW had
none of these as options.

Phil

From: "PAW"
Date: 8/25/2004 6:26 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: "PAW"
Date: 8/25/2004 1:22 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: osite (RobertR237)
Date: 8/23/2004 8:51 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:



From: " jls"
Date: 8/23/2004 7:10 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

http://www.glcq.com/bush_at_arpc1.htm

I got as far as the ARPC gag. For those who never served during that
time
frame
let me explain. The site said Bush never finished his 6 year
commitment.
The
authour has no idea what that means. During that time ALL males 18
and
over
had
a 6 year obligation unless excused for valid reasons (conscientious
objector,
medical etc). This means if one signed up for 3 years active duty in
the
Army
and completed those 3 years and got out he STILL had 3 years inactive
reserves
before being released. If Bush didn't serve his 6 years in either
Guard,
active
or reserves the remaining time was INACTIVE reserve.

The six year obligation was the same for officers, warrants and
enlisteds.

As an aside retirees have a 10 year inactive reserve obligation upon
retirement.

Think what you want about Bush, but wild accusations and name calling
proves
absoultely nothing.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


On the contrary Dan, I proves a great deal...just not about Bush.


Bob Reed


I hadn't look at it that way. You are correct.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Any of you guys recall NG's with 4 year active reserve commitments in
the
late 60's, early 70's? I don't. Every single NG I knew was on 6 year
ACTIVE
reserve status. I'm sure many of them would have enjoyed getting cut
loose
early too.

Phil

The commitment was a total of 6 years. I know people who did Guard fo 6
years
and and some who did 4 years. Never having done Guard I'm not sure how
they did
it.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Nobody (other than GW Bush) went through flightschool (during that time
period) with a 4 year NG commitment. I served my time, why couldn't Bush
serve his? Why couldn't he maintain flight status? We know he likes to
fly.... at least out to aircraft carriers playing pilot dressup. Gw's
commitment was for 6 years of ACTIVE TANG and he didn't finish it. In the
meantime, men were being drafted and sent to war.

Dan, were you in the service prior to 75?

Phil

He was qualified on F-102s which were being phased out at the time. I don't
think he had retainability to cross train.

In any event, that was a long time ago and we all suffered in that damn war so
I don't understand why it's such a big part of kerry's campaign. If combat
alone made one qualified to be president the Tim McVeigh was just as qualified.

Yes, I came back from Viet Nam in 1972 and got out of the Army in 1973.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: "PAW"
Date: 8/25/2004 8:52 AM Central



Think of the line they would have had if *all* you had to do was a 4 year
active guard hitch to go to *flight school*. Heck, I would have gone in a
heartbeat rather than the SIX years of active duty I got stuck with. Not
that I should complain. I managed to stay out of Vietnam too. They sent me
to Okinawa instead. Anyhow, GW was one lucky guy. Anyone else would have
been yanked into active duty or charged with a crime.


What crime would that be? Despite all the sputtering by the anti Bush no one
has yet come up with proof he had done anything wrong. The fact remains he
served and was honourably discharged.


And you're correct. They handled enlisted ranks much different. They could
mix it up... 2 active (draft) 4 inactive, 3 and 3, 4 and 2, or all 6. GW had
none of these as options.

Phil

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Bob,

Think of the line they would have had if *all* you had to do was a 4 year
active guard hitch to go to *flight school*. Heck, I would have gone in a
heartbeat rather than the SIX years of active duty I got stuck with. Not
that I should complain. I managed to stay out of Vietnam too. They sent me
to Okinawa instead. Anyhow, GW was one lucky guy. Anyone else would have
been yanked into active duty or charged with a crime.

And you're correct. They handled enlisted ranks much different. They could
mix it up... 2 active (draft) 4 inactive, 3 and 3, 4 and 2, or all 6. GW had
none of these as options.

Phil


Phil,

You have been listening to too much hype and not enough facts regarding GW's NG
duty. He did serve his full two years of full time duty and there is only a
question about the last year of weekend duty. Even then, the record keeping
for the weekend NG wasn't all that great and I know of several people who
skipped many of their weekend calls. Rather he did or didn't really doesn't
make one bit of difference now.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

He was qualified on F-102s which were being phased out at the time. I don't
think he had retainability to cross train.

In any event, that was a long time ago and we all suffered in that damn war
so
I don't understand why it's such a big part of kerry's campaign. If combat
alone made one qualified to be president the Tim McVeigh was just as
qualified.

Yes, I came back from Viet Nam in 1972 and got out of the Army in 1973.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


It was an issue in Kerry's campaign because he wants to try and use it as some
sort of leverage that he has better qualifications to be commander in chief.
The democrats have been pushing the issue of Bush's National Guard record from
the very beginning. It also takes the heat off of Kerry's voting record which
they really don't want advertised.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

On 26 Aug 2004 01:37:16 GMT, osite (RobertR237)
wrote:

It was an issue in Kerry's campaign because he wants to try and use it as some
sort of leverage that he has better qualifications to be commander in chief.
The democrats have been pushing the issue of Bush's National Guard record from
the very beginning. It also takes the heat off of Kerry's voting record which
they really don't want advertised.

Fact: Kerry went to Vietnam and fought in combat. Fact: He was a
commander who commanded in combat. Regardless the medals issue and
those swift boat idiots who are funded by close Texan friends of Bush,
and who have direct connections to the Whitehouse whether Bush was
aware of it or not, he went and put himself and his men in harms way,
like all soldiers are supposed to, but sometimes don't. It is said by
many who fought in war that leading soldiers under fire is an all
encompassing leavening process, that it changes you forever and
teaches you to lead.

It's an issue because Bush, for whatever his reasons, chose not to go
to Vietnam, and that's a fact too. Yes he flew an F-102 but as
everyone who knew him and Bush himself admits, he mostly drank and
partied during those years. I would venture to say, there's no doubt
about this either, it's been extensively documented and Bush himself
admits to heavy drinking and partying during those years, as do those
who knew him.

As a young man Kerry - led men in deadly combat during the most
divisive conflict in American history. A conflict that our leaders
who took us there now admit was a HUGE mistake. Some, like Kerry,
figured this out while he was there. He not only had to command his
men, he also had to command his Swift Boat. Loose control of the boat
and you loose control of the situation and put your men in jeopardy.
Most readily admit that Swift Boat duty was tough and dangerous duty.

As a young man Bush - drank and partied while flying stateside for the
National Guard thus avoiding serving in combat. Whether it was his
intent or not, he did not go.

Those were the processes by which these two men learned to lead.
Which process do you think might have the best chance to shape a
decisive leader?

Corky Scott

Corky Scott wrote:

On 26 Aug 2004 01:37:16 GMT, osite (RobertR237)
wrote:

It was an issue in Kerry's campaign because he wants to try and use it as some
sort of leverage that he has better qualifications to be commander in chief.
The democrats have been pushing the issue of Bush's National Guard record from
the very beginning. It also takes the heat off of Kerry's voting record which
they really don't want advertised.

Fact: Kerry went to Vietnam and fought in combat. Fact: He was a
commander who commanded in combat. Regardless the medals issue and
those swift boat idiots who are funded by close Texan friends of Bush,
and who have direct connections to the Whitehouse whether Bush was
aware of it or not, he went and put himself and his men in harms way,
like all soldiers are supposed to, but sometimes don't. It is said by
many who fought in war that leading soldiers under fire is an all
encompassing leavening process, that it changes you forever and
teaches you to lead.

It's an issue because Bush, for whatever his reasons, chose not to go
to Vietnam, and that's a fact too. Yes he flew an F-102 but as
everyone who knew him and Bush himself admits, he mostly drank and
partied during those years. I would venture to say, there's no doubt
about this either, it's been extensively documented and Bush himself
admits to heavy drinking and partying during those years, as do those
who knew him.

As a young man Kerry - led men in deadly combat during the most
divisive conflict in American history. A conflict that our leaders
who took us there now admit was a HUGE mistake. Some, like Kerry,
figured this out while he was there. He not only had to command his
men, he also had to command his Swift Boat. Loose control of the boat
and you loose control of the situation and put your men in jeopardy.
Most readily admit that Swift Boat duty was tough and dangerous duty.

As a young man Bush - drank and partied while flying stateside for the
National Guard thus avoiding serving in combat. Whether it was his
intent or not, he did not go.

Those were the processes by which these two men learned to lead.
Which process do you think might have the best chance to shape a
decisive leader?

Corky Scott


with only four months, kerry likely never learned where the lever was
to make the boat go faster,

I've seen bosses who stay 'four months' and the lowlies run the show for
him,,,,,,,,,,
--


Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620
1-812-838-6351

From: Corky Scott
Date: 8/26/2004 7:53 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 26 Aug 2004 01:37:16 GMT, osite (RobertR237)
wrote:

It was an issue in Kerry's campaign because he wants to try and use it as
some
sort of leverage that he has better qualifications to be commander in chief.

The democrats have been pushing the issue of Bush's National Guard record
from
the very beginning. It also takes the heat off of Kerry's voting record
which
they really don't want advertised.

Fact: Kerry went to Vietnam and fought in combat. Fact: He was a
commander who commanded in combat. Regardless the medals issue and
those swift boat idiots who are funded by close Texan friends of Bush,
and who have direct connections to the Whitehouse whether Bush was
aware of it or not, he went and put himself and his men in harms way,
like all soldiers are supposed to, but sometimes don't. It is said by
many who fought in war that leading soldiers under fire is an all
encompassing leavening process, that it changes you forever and
teaches you to lead.

It's an issue because Bush, for whatever his reasons, chose not to go
to Vietnam, and that's a fact too. Yes he flew an F-102 but as
everyone who knew him and Bush himself admits, he mostly drank and
partied during those years. I would venture to say, there's no doubt
about this either, it's been extensively documented and Bush himself
admits to heavy drinking and partying during those years, as do those
who knew him.

As a young man Kerry - led men in deadly combat during the most
divisive conflict in American history. A conflict that our leaders
who took us there now admit was a HUGE mistake. Some, like Kerry,
figured this out while he was there. He not only had to command his
men, he also had to command his Swift Boat. Loose control of the boat
and you loose control of the situation and put your men in jeopardy.
Most readily admit that Swift Boat duty was tough and dangerous duty.

As a young man Bush - drank and partied while flying stateside for the
National Guard thus avoiding serving in combat. Whether it was his
intent or not, he did not go.

Those were the processes by which these two men learned to lead.
Which process do you think might have the best chance to shape a
decisive leader?

Corky Scott

Main Gott, you are comparing anvils to oranges. The leadership a man learns in
combat is how to lead in combat not how to run a corporation. Successful
executives use managment, not leadership. There is a difference.

As for the drinking and partying I can tell you have never been in the
military. I am willing to bet kerry did exactly that between missions. I know I
did when I was in Viet Nam in the Army.

Now then, why does kerry not talk about what he has done in his political life?
Kerry is always alternating between bashing Bush and bring up his Viet Nam
service. I want to hear from kerry what his plans are if by some miracle he
gets elected.

Now the most important question: what has any of this to do with homebuilt
aircraft?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired