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Undershoot Vs. Overshoot airport landing accidents



 
 
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  #31  
Old April 19th 19, 04:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Agnew
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Default Undershoot Vs. Overshoot airport landing accidents

On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 7:16:56 PM UTC-4, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 5:14:05 PM UTC-4, Paul Agnew wrote:
...My ASW19 stock spoilers are just not effective enough...


Yup, do the -19 spoiler upgrade that adds an additional panel,
nice to have that additional drag and safety margin!


It's on the wish list along with the lift up binacle and disc brake mod. There's nobody in our area that is familiar with gliders enough to engage them for the spoiler mod.

PA
  #32  
Old April 19th 19, 08:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Default Undershoot Vs. Overshoot airport landing accidents

OK......a reply down the thread.......

Chewing on this a bit........

My basic comment.....if you are rusty enough to totally blow a pattern, I think you are rusty enough to NOT do a 360 late in the pattern.....

I basically have NO issues with doing a 360* pattern approach (sorta common for US aviation military) or current GA pilots......
Being "OMG" high for a non-current pilot (ANY kind) on final.....you have already sorta proved you are rusty...thus you are adding to that by doing a 360 on final.......
Can we say "another statistic"?!?!?!

Part of me states.......complacency.......
Good example?
The Snowbird at HHSC every fall.
Some peeps do well.
Others "have to practice".......!!!!
Why?
The basics are......energy management in a known environment.
What is the issue?

Go look up the rules for the HHSC Snowbird rules......anybody doing XC should do well in the comp......sheesh......anybody close to PPG or above should do well.....power guys should be close....
I have seen too many peeps used to, "Land somewhere, peeps will push us back...." is total BS....!!!!
Every landing is to a point, end up where you need to be........
Period......

Yes......poop happens, way too many "stupid broken stuff" based on complacency.......
Yes, I help fix some "stupid stuff"...,,,,,

Yes, I agree with T8 and some others here.
I have stated some of what I do/recommend.
I will assume some peeps here think I am a "butthead" which may be true (for various reasons.....) but worst I have done in decades is pull glass gear door rivets in sorta tall crop p,us lots of grass stains.
I have no clue on how many off airport landings I have done from 1-26 to ASG-29.

OK.....let the poop storm start....I have my Nomex suit on....I don't care other than......
Don't hurt the ship.....peeps are OK.
Period.
  #33  
Old April 19th 19, 09:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default Undershoot Vs. Overshoot airport landing accidents

This thread reminds me of 'a friend of mine' who set his altimeter to exactly 1000 feet lower than field elevation.

Then he took a long and high flight in wave and had gotten used to 'things look tiny on the ground', so he was on downwind before he got the That Looks About Wrong rude awakening.
  #35  
Old April 22nd 19, 10:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default Undershoot Vs. Overshoot airport landing accidents

Matt Herron Jr. wrote on 4/18/2019 3:33 PM:

Tight 360s are much safer than shallow 360s. Much harder to stall/spin. I just finished a winch launching class, and was taught that in the event of a rope break you can find yourself at mid field at 300' -400' and your best option is a tight 360 turn or two- to the downwind side, tangent to the runway, then land from mid field once below 300'. (this is for a shorter 2700' runway). It seemed very unintuitive at first, but it worked just fine.


Why not turn 180, fly downwind, and then do another 180 when you have enough
runway to land, instead a tight 360? And especially instead doing two 360's!


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #36  
Old April 22nd 19, 11:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Undershoot Vs. Overshoot airport landing accidents

On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 2:05:10 PM UTC-5, Tango Whisky wrote:
Yes. Anytime.


This isn't intended to come across as a "I told you so", but educational for those who predicted that a steep full spoiler approach will put you into the far fence at high speed.

Arcus M, 1650 lbs. starting out close to the same spot as the first video and also 1,200 ft MSL (field elevation 300) and I had to close spoilers almost fully to clear the 20' high power lines on the approach end of the "extension" at SCOH. I adjusted pitch just a tad and ballooned before touchdown but total distance over the 20' wires was approximately 1,400 ft and without significant braking my landing roll was on the order of 700-800ft per Google Earth.

I will try this again, but starting much higher and post again. With full spoilers and modest increase in airspeed you can scrub a lot of altitude. Recommended to be tested at altitude first.

Video at the following link:

https://youtu.be/2-KiGtSbkMA

Mark
  #37  
Old April 23rd 19, 05:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Default Undershoot Vs. Overshoot airport landing accidents

The Arcus is a completely different ship and has decent airbrakes. The Duodiscus hasn't.
  #38  
Old April 23rd 19, 08:01 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathon May
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Default Undershoot Vs. Overshoot airport landing accidents

At 04:43 23 April 2019, Tango Whisky wrote:
The Arcus is a completely different ship and has decent

airbrakes. The
Duodiscus hasn't.

The Duo discus didn't but
The Duo Discus XL has excellent brakes and has been around 10
years now.
The Arcus is more like the XL


  #39  
Old April 23rd 19, 12:25 PM
Delta8 Delta8 is offline
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Location: Pa.
Posts: 56
Default

Well ? If one has wings level with spoilers deployed and is anticipated running out of runway why not throw left and right rudder to skid ?
  #40  
Old April 23rd 19, 01:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Undershoot Vs. Overshoot airport landing accidents

I just want to underscribe the statement:
Don't Ever Do the Airbrake Dive in the DuoDiscus Mk 1.
It won't have the desired effect, while actually bringing the sailplane in ground effect at very high speeds. Unless you have 3 km or more of runway in front of you.
The 2nd generation of the Duo (with landing flaps) allows this technique. The Arcus has powerful drag devices. Totally different beasts when managing the energy for landing.

Been there, done that, had vertebrae concussion and a nerve compression.

Aldo Cernezzi
www.voloavela.it
 




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