FAA: 157 airspace violations since 9/11

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:PNmJb.733077$Fm2.638775@attbi_s04...

I can only shake my head in disbelief that 157 pilots could make such a
mistake -- it makes us all look ridiculous. I mean, this isn't Mayor
Daley's suburban Chicago house, for chrissakes, this is the PRESIDENT'S
residence. Even us bumpkin pilots from Ioway know where THOSE are, and
surely any pilot should be able to steer a wide berth around 'em.

OK, Jay....I'll make you a deal. I'll dump you out between HGR and MRB and
you tell me where P40 is. No fair using the GPS.

Andrew Gideon wrote:

But these look pretty heavy, so I've doubts that an ultralight can carry
them.

You wouldn't have to go much beyond an ultralight. A few years ago, the Smithsonian
was doing some work in the Pacific. They mounted a 250 pound Imax camera on a
Quicksilver GT500 aircraft. Worked ok for a bit, but the pilot lost control of it
at altitude while trying to make a photo run with a cameraman on board. Put that
suitcase nuke in the passenger's seat, it would probably work fine.

The GT500 is classified as an ultralight under the European rules and as a Sport
Airplane under U.S. rules.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

Jay Honeck wrote:

Note that these violations did NOT occur over the controversial "national
pop-up TFRs" we all know and hate. These happened over the President's
residences!

No, they're the magical "expanding TFRs".

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

"John T" wrote in message
ws.com...


Keep in mind that even though airspace over Camp David (P40), for
example,
is charted and well known, it can be expanded with little notice (i.e.,
become a "pop-up TFR").

At least now both the expanded and contracted boundaries are charted. It
is out in
some featureless forrest and there's even a Victor airway running through
it. Even before
it started getting ridiculous in size, I steered well clear of it (I used
to go from Dulles
to FDK, MRB, and HGR quite regularly).

And the right wing gave Clinton a rash of crap for putting concrete
abutments in front of the White House.

AJ wrote:
Considering how restrictions pop up without warning, I'm not surpised:

WASHINGTON (CNN) --Since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001,
and despite heightened security, 157 planes have violated airspace
over presidential residences, CNN has learned.

Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) records show that in the year
since the terrorist attacks, planes have flown into off-limits
airspace near the White House seven times.

Over the presidential retreat at Camp David, Maryland, the FAA says
there were 104 violations.

And over President Bush's ranch at Crawford, Texas, FAA-listed
violations numbered 46.
The FAA issued a warning to pilots this summer after a weekend in
which three aircraft flew into prohibited airspace over Camp David
while the Bush family was there.

One of the violators was an ultralight aircraft that the Secret
Service spotted when it was directly overhead. Military pilots
couldn't track the small plane, which doesn't show up on radar, and it
got away.

In a recent address to airline pilots, Art Cummings, chief of the
FBI's National Joint Strategic Assessment and Warning Section,
cautioned, "We've seen terrorist organizations looking at everything
as small as ultralights to deliver weapons of mass destruction ...

"That's yet another vulnerability that we have to take a look at very
strongly," he said. "We have to fill that gap."

The Secret Service would not comment on the potential threat posed by
small aircraft.

Off-limits charts posted
The FAA in July for the first time began posting charts on its Web
site showing the off-limits airspace, so pilots could see on a map
where they cannot fly. (You can view the FAA charts of
flight-restricted areas at
http://www.faa.gov/NTAP/specialnotam..._graphics_.htm)

Still, problems continued.

During Labor Day weekend, while Bush was at his Texas ranch, five
planes flew into the prohibited airspace. All were escorted down by
fighter jets.

Pilots who violate prohibited airspace can be fined or have their
licenses revoked or suspended. But the most common penalty is remedial
training, according to the FAA.

While some lawmakers have asked for tougher penalties, others,
including Rep. James Oberstar of Minnesota, say the FAA is sometimes
at fault for not giving pilots adequate or accurate information.

"FAA has to shoulder the responsibility," said Oberstar, who chaired
the House Aviation Subcommittee from 1989 through 1994, when
Republicans became the majority party.

"Pilots don't have accurate information," he said. "They don't have
consistent and recurrent training. And they ought to get that and the
FAA ought to provide it."

Tom Blank, the Transportation Security Administration's associate
undersecretary for security regulation and policy, said the new agency
is addressing the problem.

"Of course we want to see them (violations) come down. We're hard at
work trying to do that," he said. "We think we can make some progress
in the months ahead."

But Blank said measures, some of them not visible to the public, are
in place to ensure Bush's safety is not threatened.

"Suffice it to say that preparations are made to take the proper steps
to defend Washington and defend what's inside the other restricted
airspaces around the country," he said.
Please do not get me wrong - I do not condone these airspace violations.
I do have my flame-proof pajamas on.
But...reports like this bother me because they are incomplete. So there
were 157 airspace violations in the year following 9/11. Please put that
number into perspective for me. How many violations were there PRIOR to
9/11. Without proper perspectives the media folks make pilots out to be
the "bad guys" for being to stupid. Also, how many of those airspace
violations were from pilots who had spotty or incorrect information from
pre-flight briefers? How many of those violations were the result of
pilots needing to make an emergency landing at the closest available
airfield? Are such incidents still considered airspace violations?

'Nuff said.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:PNmJb.733077$Fm2.638775@attbi_s04...
Keep in mind that even though airspace over Camp David (P40), for example,
is charted and well known, it can be expanded with little notice

I know. It's a real, *known* problem.

The problem is, it ISN'T apparently "known" by as many pilots as we would
like to believe.

There ARE cases where pilots from out of the area were not told of the
inflatable TFR over P-40, or even of the SFR area over DC. The "157"
number includes all violations since 9/11, including the early days
when FSS and ATC could be pretty confused sometimes themselves.

What I'd like to see is violations/month or something like that. And
violations per TFR that's constant vs the pop up or inflatable TFRs.
These would be more useful measures.

I can only shake my head in disbelief that 157 pilots could make such a
mistake -- it makes us all look ridiculous. I mean, this isn't Mayor
Daley's suburban Chicago house, for chrissakes, this is the PRESIDENT'S
residence. Even us bumpkin pilots from Ioway know where THOSE are, and
surely any pilot should be able to steer a wide berth around 'em.

The interesting thing is that 1) GA hasn't been in any publicly known
terrorist incident in North America, and 2) Commercial avaition has,
and 3) National airport is maybe all of 30 seconds flight time from
downtown DC.

Yet somehow GA gets all the attention and National's still open, but
only to commericial av. Even the guys at FSS think this is bogus and
that the ADIZ is at least partly window dressing.

I fear we're heading for a huge problem with this issue... :-(

I do agree on that! GA is small and an easy political target.

-Malcolm Teas

OK, Jay....I'll make you a deal. I'll dump you out between HGR and MRB
and
you tell me where P40 is. No fair using the GPS.

Although I suspect I could figure it out with my VORs (assuming they still
work -- we haven't turned 'em on in a few months), why would it be "no fair"
using the best navigational tool in my plane?

Or are you implying that the 157 pilots who flew over the President's homes
didn't have access to GPS?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message news:3ff6048d$0$32330

OK, Jay....I'll make you a deal. I'll dump you out between HGR and MRB
and
you tell me where P40 is. No fair using the GPS.


I would say that if you fly arount those areas, you should get., and use
GPS......or steer a
wide berth.

I agree with Jay. A few are going to screw it up for all of us, if no
changes are made.
--
Jim in NC

Tom Sixkiller opined

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
om...

"John T" wrote in message
ews.com...


Keep in mind that even though airspace over Camp David (P40), for
example,
is charted and well known, it can be expanded with little notice (i.e.,
become a "pop-up TFR").

At least now both the expanded and contracted boundaries are charted. It
is out in
some featureless forrest and there's even a Victor airway running through
it. Even before
it started getting ridiculous in size, I steered well clear of it (I used
to go from Dulles
to FDK, MRB, and HGR quite regularly).

And the right wing gave Clinton a rash of crap for putting concrete
abutments in front of the White House.

And the right wing is unhappy that Bush hasn't removed them.



-ash
for assistance dial MYCROFTXXX

In article , Ron
Natalie wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:PNmJb.733077$Fm2.638775@attbi_s04...

I can only shake my head in disbelief that 157 pilots could make such a
mistake -- it makes us all look ridiculous. I mean, this isn't Mayor
Daley's suburban Chicago house, for chrissakes, this is the PRESIDENT'S
residence. Even us bumpkin pilots from Ioway know where THOSE are, and
surely any pilot should be able to steer a wide berth around 'em.

OK, Jay....I'll make you a deal. I'll dump you out between HGR and MRB and
you tell me where P40 is. No fair using the GPS.


Well that's not quite fair, Ron. Pilots are not "dumped out" into an
area. They fly into an area. If I was flying between HGR and MRB I'd
dial in the FDK 325 radial and remain west of it. P-40 is not hard to
avoid, even without GPS. There are a half dozen VOR's around it. This
should not be a hard thing to do for a competant pilot. If you are
flying NORDO you should be aware of landmarks in the area and give the
restricted area an extra wide berth. AOPA has been diligent about
posting the P-40 expansions and they are normally issued days before
they occur. I agree with Jay, there is no excuse for violating these
areas nowadays.