Light Sport Aircraft

I am planning to buy a factory-built LSA within a few months. All the
aircraft I am considering will be built by companies with a history of
selling kits - e.g., Rans, Kolb, Kitfox, etc. Any homebuilders out
there have any opinions about any of these companies and their
products?

Thanks

Are any of those aircraft built under the "consensus standards"? Are the
consensus standards even finalized yet?



"Willard" wrote in message
ups.com...
I am planning to buy a factory-built LSA within a few months. All the
aircraft I am considering will be built by companies with a history of
selling kits - e.g., Rans, Kolb, Kitfox, etc. Any homebuilders out
there have any opinions about any of these companies and their
products?

Thanks

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 11:26:29 -0600, "Gig Giacona"
wrote:
"Willard" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am planning to buy a factory-built LSA within a few months. All the
aircraft I am considering will be built by companies with a history of
selling kits - e.g., Rans, Kolb, Kitfox, etc. Any homebuilders out
there have any opinions about any of these companies and their
products?


Are any of those aircraft built under the "consensus standards"? Are the
consensus standards even finalized yet?

The consensus standards have been released, you can order them from www.astm.org
(Stock number: Aircraft04). It's an 80-page document, used in lieu of a few
hundred pages of conventional FAR. Interesting read. The maintenance standard
is still under discussion, but it will probably be out soon. The FAA is having
its first course for DAR-LSAs this month, but I believe a standard DAR (or, of
course, the local FSDO) can do the safety sign-off for a production LSA.


Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 11:26:29 -0600, "Gig Giacona"

wrote:
"Willard" wrote in message
roups.com...
I am planning to buy a factory-built LSA within a few months. All the
aircraft I am considering will be built by companies with a history of
selling kits - e.g., Rans, Kolb, Kitfox, etc. Any homebuilders out
there have any opinions about any of these companies and their
products?


Are any of those aircraft built under the "consensus standards"? Are the
consensus standards even finalized yet?

The consensus standards have been released, you can order them from
www.astm.org
(Stock number: Aircraft04). It's an 80-page document, used in lieu of a
few
hundred pages of conventional FAR. Interesting read. The maintenance
standard
is still under discussion, but it will probably be out soon. The FAA is
having
its first course for DAR-LSAs this month, but I believe a standard DAR
(or, of
course, the local FSDO) can do the safety sign-off for a production LSA.


Ron Wanttaja


So it is. Though I couldn't find it with AVIATION04 as a search I did find
this http://www.astm.org/COMMIT/F37.htm just ordered a copy.

That still begs the question as to if a plane has been built to this
standard yet or will be in a few months as the OP seemed to beleive.

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote


The consensus standards have been released, you can order them from
www.astm.org
(Stock number: Aircraft04). It's an 80-page document, used in lieu of a
few
hundred pages of conventional FAR. Interesting read. The maintenance
standard
is still under discussion, but it will probably be out soon. The FAA is
having
its first course for DAR-LSAs this month, but I believe a standard DAR
(or, of
course, the local FSDO) can do the safety sign-off for a production LSA.


Ron Wanttaja

Is it correct to say that the consensus standards do not apply, when it is a
plans built? How about kit meeting 51% self built rule?

I'm still not exactly sure I understand what an experimental LSA is, and
what hoops must be jumped through.
--
Jim in NC

In article ,
says...


"Ron Wanttaja" wrote


The consensus standards have been released, you can order them from
www.astm.org
(Stock number: Aircraft04). It's an 80-page document, used in lieu
of a
few
hundred pages of conventional FAR. Interesting read. The maintenan
ce
standard
is still under discussion, but it will probably be out soon. The FA
A is
having
its first course for DAR-LSAs this month, but I believe a standard D
AR
(or, of
course, the local FSDO) can do the safety sign-off for a production
LSA.


Ron Wanttaja

Is it correct to say that the consensus standards do not apply, when i
t is a
plans built? How about kit meeting 51% self built rule?

I'm still not exactly sure I understand what an experimental LSA is, a
nd
what hoops must be jumped through.
--
Jim in NC


An ELSA is simply an SLSA that has been pulled off the production line
at whatever point the customer wants. The customer then finishes the
planes following the EXACT factory instructions but it must be
identical to the SLSA. All factory parts and no modifications at all.

It is subject to the same maintaince ect requirements as SLSA but can
not be used for instruction or rental.

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 22:30:18 GMT, (sleepy6) wrote:

In article ,
says...

Is it correct to say that the consensus standards do not apply, when
it is a plans built? How about kit meeting 51% self built rule?

I'm still not exactly sure I understand what an experimental LSA is, a
and what hoops must be jumped through.

An ELSA is simply an SLSA that has been pulled off the production line
at whatever point the customer wants. The customer then finishes the
planes following the EXACT factory instructions but it must be
identical to the SLSA. All factory parts and no modifications at all.

It is subject to the same maintaince etc requirements as SLSA but can
not be used for instruction or rental.

Sleepy is correct. The LSA regs do not affect the classic 51% homebuilts *at
all*. The same old process is in effect. If your 51% homebuilt meets the
definition of a Light Sport Aircraft (gross weight, stall speed, etc.) it can be
flown by a person with Sport Pilot privileges (either someone with an actual
Sport Pilot license, or someone with a higher license and an lapsed medical) but
the licensing and maintenance regulations are the same as they've always been.

One small point that I'll correct Sleepy on: The Experimental LSA is not quite
subject to the same maintenance requirements of a Special Light Sport Aircraft.

On the SLSA:

1. Preventative maintenance can be performed by the owner (just like FAR 23
aircraft).
2. Normal/major maintenance must be performed by an A&P or a person with a
Light Sport-Maintenance (LS-M) Repairman Certificate
3. Annual inspections must be performed by either an A&P or a person with a
LS-M Repairman Certificate.

For the ELSA:

1&2. Preventative AND Normal/major maintenance can be performed by the owner
3. Annual inspections must be performed by an A&P, a person with a LS-M
Repairman Certificate, or someone with the other new Repairman Certificate,
Light Sport- Inspection (LS-I).

The LS-I Repairman Certificate is similar to the Amateur-Built aircraft
repairman certificate, with two significant exceptions:

First, the applicant must complete a 16-hour training course. You can NOT
receive an LS-I just by assembling an ELSA. You MUST take the course.

Second, a person with an LS-I may perform the annual inspection on *any* ELSA
they own. Unlike the Amateur-Built Repairman Certificate, it is not applicable
to only one aircraft. Once you earn the LS-I, you can buy another ELSA kit or a
completed ELSA aircraft and perform the annual inspections on it.

Sleepy touches on one sporty item about the ELSA category. Like he says, the
ELSA kit *must* be built exactly to the LSA kit manufacturer's instructions.
You cannot install an alternate engine, use a different covering system, etc.
It must be built precisely to the manufacturer's callout.

However... as far as I can tell, the owner can then modify the aircraft however
they chose, once the plane receives its formal ELSA airworthiness certificate.

Owners of SLSAs (the production LSAs) must maintain their aircraft in precise
accordance to the manufacturer's maintenance plan and continued safety
directives to continue to conform to the consensus standard. But the FAA also
says that owners of SLSAs can avoid having to follow the SLSA's manufacturer's
safety directives by changing their plane's airworthiness to ELSA.

It follows, then, that ELSAs are NOT required to continue to comply to the
consensus standard, and owners can modify them once they've received their
original ELSA certification.

Ron Wanttaja

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 23:24:21 GMT, Ron Wanttaja wrote:

It is subject to the same maintaince etc requirements as SLSA but can
not be used for instruction or rental.

Sleepy is correct.

Whoops, noticed something else. I believe ELSAs *can* be used for instruction
and rental, through 2010. That's what's covering the two-seat ultralight
trainers that must convert to ELSA.

Ron Wanttaja

Williard,
You will, no doubt get a lot of messages in response to your post
regarding the LSA rules, the availability of factory built, sLSA
certified aircraft and so forth.

I will apply good common sense and assume that you will not be buying
one of these airplanes until they are available (whenever that is, two
months or 10 months) and answer the question that you actually asked.

I have experience with RANS and Kitfox aircraft. I have personally
built 5 RANS kitplanes and I have known Randy Schlitter since 1988. The
airplanes are top notch, customer support and service are second to
none. RANS has a production certificate in hand and can build S-7
Couriers today. To my knowledge, this is the only LSA legal, new
airplane that is certified right now. The RANS S-6 Coyote is a great
airplane and is very easy to build. As a matter of fact, I would
encourage you to buy a RANS S-6 kit with Quickbuild option and put it
together yourself. You can license it under Experimental/Amateur Built
and fly it with a no-medical Sport Pilot license. By building it
yourself, you can do your own annual condition inspections and repairs.

One of the S-6's that I built was assembled in 48 days of part time
work. That was before the quickbuild option was available.

In regard to the Kitfox, it is a very nice airplane with good handling
qualities. I have test flown one and ferried one for the owner when it
was sold. I do not have any first hand knowledge of what the Kitfox is
like to build or the company's customer service.

Blue Skies!

Rick Pellicciotti


Willard wrote:

I am planning to buy a factory-built LSA within a few months. All the
aircraft I am considering will be built by companies with a history of
selling kits - e.g., Rans, Kolb, Kitfox, etc. Any homebuilders out
there have any opinions about any of these companies and their
products?

Thanks

Is it correct to say that the consensus standards do not apply, when i
t is a
plans built? How about kit meeting 51% self built rule?

I'm still not exactly sure I understand what an experimental LSA is, a
nd
what hoops must be jumped through.
--
Jim in NC


An ELSA is simply an SLSA that has been pulled off the production line
at whatever point the customer wants. The customer then finishes the
planes following the EXACT factory instructions but it must be
identical to the SLSA. All factory parts and no modifications at all.

It is subject to the same maintaince ect requirements as SLSA but can
not be used for instruction or rental.

Sorry, but you didn't catch what I asked. What about the plans built, or
one that has no assembly, at all? What about the guy that designs one (one
off) that fits under the specs of the rule?
--
Jim in NC