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#21
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Questions on VFR sectionals and TACs
Thomas Borchert writes:
You're going at this the wrong way. In flight, what you do is simply look at the chart, find some ground features close to the border line of the airspace, look out the window, find the same ground features - and presto, you know where you are in relation to the airspace. But that's just it: There are few ground features shown on the chart. In some cases, a charted feature is near the border of the airspace, but in many cases there is nothing along the border. Even with landmarks, the best you can do is estimate. I suppose one can argue that the differences among certain types of airspace aren't that great, and a ballpark estimate will do. But if they aren't that important, why bother to chart them? It's all a strong argument for moving-map GPS systems, but one shouldn't have to depend on those. For IFR flight, airspace doesn't matter much, since the controller will do everything necessary for you. Yes, but this is a chart intended for VFR. Also, many circular airspaces are centered around a VOR-DME, so there's another help. That does seem to be the case fairly often for Class B airspace, and as long as it's a moderately regular layer cake, you can find out where you are. I notice that some boundaries are clearly marked as being on a particular radial or at a particular distance. Others are marked as coincident with a feature such as a road, although how one is supposed to recognize one road among others is not explained (in the Phoenix TAC that I'm looking at, the entire area is crisscrossed with a grid of streets; I'm not sure how I'd distinguish Camelback Road from the other nearly identical streets to the north and south of it. Figuring the radius (which is normally standardized for certain types of airspace) is pretty easy, since the scale of a sectional is the same every time and you have a ruler. If I can take my hands off the controls and turn to my chart to measure it, that is. The logic for class E lower limits is in IFR traffic being in it. Class E means higher visibility requirements for VFR, so they can separate themselves from IFR traffic. I guess that makes sense--although it seems that essentially everything is Class E, anyway. It sounds like this was not always so. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#22
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Questions on VFR sectionals and TACs
Jose writes:
Not cyan. Rather, class E is depicted by that horrible purply color the FAA erroniously calls "magenta". What they print on the chart is not magenta by any stretch of the imagination. Magenta is beautiful; you can see magenta in the deluxe Crayola crayon box. The FAA color should be called "FAA feh". Cyan is more like a deep blue. Real cyan is also beautiful. Cyan is an equal blend of green and blue. It is used in process printing as one of the four base colors. Magenta is another one of those colors, and it is an equal blend of red and blue. The other two colors are yellow and black. By blending these colors in various proportions, you can produce virtually any color of the rainbow on paper. I'm not sure why the FAA chose these colors, but one possible reason is that they blend easily when they overlay other colors, which probably makes it easier to produce semitransparent borders with them. You can get away with simply overprinting cyan and magenta halftones; doing the same with primaries like red or blue (which are already screened blends) might just get you a muddy black. With modern electronic illustration and mapmaking this could probably be changed, but it looks like aviation charts are still being drawn and modified by hand--they lack the crisp look of something original prepared on a computer. It must be hugely labor-intensive. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#23
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Questions on VFR sectionals and TACs
Bob Noel writes:
I literally got it from the club a few hours earlier as he unpacked the boxes. :-) So is the actual purpose of that big area explained, or does it just say that it's a (mysterious) restriction? -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#24
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Questions on VFR sectionals and TACs
Ron Natalie writes:
Are we talking about the one over Bush the First's place in Kennebunkport? Why does he get a flight restriction? He's not a public official (as far as I know). -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#25
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Questions on VFR sectionals and TACs
Mxsmanic,
But that's just it: There are few ground features shown on the chart. In some cases, a charted feature is near the border of the airspace, but in many cases there is nothing along the border. Even with landmarks, the best you can do is estimate. You know yourself how many times you've been told this here, but in a real plane, this is a non-issue - as you would find out from one hour in the air. Orientation by ground features is a very basic piloting skill which is acquired during basic instruction. It works very well most of the time for most pilots - and should you get lost, there are strategies to find your position again. But, GPS moving maps have made it easier. The consequence of using one is that you will pass a restricted airspace much closer than you would using ground features because you will be able to determine your location more precisely. If, OTOH, you're in doubt, you'll just give the restricted airspace a wider berth. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#26
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Questions on VFR sectionals and TACs
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#27
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Questions on VFR sectionals and TACs
In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote: Thomas Borchert writes: Figuring the radius (which is normally standardized for certain types of airspace) is pretty easy, since the scale of a sectional is the same every time and you have a ruler. If I can take my hands off the controls and turn to my chart to measure it, that is. Taking your hands off the controls is generally no big deal. Besides, if you know you'll be flying near controlled airspace you take care of your measuring and other planning before you get in the plane. Until you fly a real plane you just can't appreciate how simple this is. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. -- Scott Post |
#28
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Questions on VFR sectionals and TACs
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 14:00:20 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote: Ron Natalie writes: Are we talking about the one over Bush the First's place in Kennebunkport? Why does he get a flight restriction? He's not a public official (as far as I know). He doesn't. He gets a 1000'/1NM prohibited area. It's when the other one comes to visit that the standard TFR appears, which (at least in the ones I have) is charted by the absence of ground color. I see someone else mentioned that the new chart which takes effect Thursday doesn't have this feature any more. Course, the TFR can still appear. |
#29
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Questions on VFR sectionals and TACs
Others are marked as coincident with a feature such as a road, although how one is supposed to recognize one road among others is not explained (in the Phoenix TAC that I'm looking at, the entire area is crisscrossed with a grid of streets; I'm not sure how I'd distinguish Camelback Road from the other nearly identical streets to the north and south of it. Being a pilot in the Phoenix area I can at least help you out with that one. Camelback road can easily be identified by it's proximity to Camelback mountain, (from where it gets it's name) , and the mountain is easily identified by it's shape (take a wild guess as to what that is !). The other streets to the north and south are less easily identified, unless you are familiar with the area, however they can be identified by the locations of the high rise buildings. Most of these are clustered around central avenue, the uptown ones begin near Thomas, the downtown ones are noticeably seperated to the south. One comment I have to make here is it seems you ask these questions from a belief that pilots just take off and go buzzing around with no prior thought or preflight planning. I can assure you that in the cases of myself and the pilots I know, this is not the case. I am a helicopter pilot so making in flight measurements with a ruler/plotter is pretty much impossible(rule of thumb works for unexpected situations) but the point I am trying to make here is that most pilots don't just take off without already knowing where they are going and how they are going to get there. We can't plan for all the eventualities (oh look at that! and a sightseeing detour happens), but we must know where we are to know if said detour will be feasible or not. Most maps if you look closely enough will have a pretty clearly defined vfr waypoint on them, that you can use to identify your location on the map, (in Phoenix look for the Beeline Y or ASU or train tracks along Grand avenue or Boswell hospital on the west side. In short I guess what I'm trying to say is if you are unfamiliar with an area, it simply means that your preflight planning will, by necessity be more thorough. Wayne CPI-RTC |
#30
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Questions on VFR sectionals and TACs
Others are marked as coincident with a feature such as a road, although how one is supposed to recognize one road among others is not explained (in the Phoenix TAC that I'm looking at, the entire area is crisscrossed with a grid of streets; I'm not sure how I'd distinguish Camelback Road from the other nearly identical streets to the north and south of it. Being a pilot in the Phoenix area I can at least help you out with that one. Camelback road can easily be identified by it's proximity to Camelback mountain, (from where it gets it's name) , and the mountain is easily identified by it's shape (take a wild guess as to what that is !). The other streets to the north and south are less easily identified, unless you are familiar with the area, however they can be identified by the locations of the high rise buildings. Most of these are clustered around central avenue, the uptown ones begin near Thomas, the downtown ones are noticeably seperated to the south. One comment I have to make here is it seems you ask these questions from a belief that pilots just take off and go buzzing around with no prior thought or preflight planning. I can assure you that in the cases of myself and the pilots I know, this is not the case. I am a helicopter pilot so making in flight measurements with a ruler/plotter is pretty much impossible(rule of thumb works for unexpected situations) but the point I am trying to make here is that most pilots don't just take off without already knowing where they are going and how they are going to get there. We can't plan for all the eventualities (oh look at that! and a sightseeing detour happens), but we must know where we are to know if said detour will be feasible or not. Most maps if you look closely enough will have a pretty clearly defined vfr waypoint on them, that you can use to identify your location on the map, (in Phoenix look for the Beeline Y or ASU or train tracks along Grand avenue or Boswell hospital on the west side. In short I guess what I'm trying to say is if you are unfamiliar with an area, it simply means that your preflight planning will, by necessity be more thorough. Wayne CPI-RTC |
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