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#41
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Den wrote:
Pearl Harbor was only allowed to happen to realize above given broader political goals. Allow a major part of our fleet to be damaged or sunk, lose countless bases and thousands of POWs and civilians in the Pacific to the Japanese, in order to do *what* to Hitler? He declared war on us, not the other way around. Does your statement make sense to you? BTW the killing of their own or allowing others to kill Americans to realize broder political goals is a traditional American PSYOP and usually it works. Remember Maine A century old accident in a powder magazine is still providing grist for rumor-mongers? Goebbels would be so proud. Remember Pearl Harbor We do. Its been dissected and examined under thousands of literary microscopes - and you know what? It was the Japanese that attacked us. Who knew? Remember 9/11 I remember it well. Not your version of it, but what really happened. People who hated us used our open society to their advantage and made us pay greatly for our previous freedoms. No where during that event was there any occurance that match your criteria of Americans killing Americans for political gain. Gordon |
#42
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"ArtKramr" wrote in message ... Whatever happened to bubble and squeak? Its a bit passe these days but the older generation still cook it, my mother is an expert, and as an ex WW2 seems to remember the Yanks all too well Keith |
#43
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Subject: For Keith Willshaw...
From: "Keith Willshaw" Date: 6/7/04 4:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: "ArtKramr" wrote in message ... Whatever happened to bubble and squeak? Its a bit passe these days but the older generation still cook it, my mother is an expert, and as an ex WW2 seems to remember the Yanks all too well Keith With some degree of fondness I hope. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#44
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Which never happened since nobody knew this.
Please none of the 'they broke the codes' bull****. The IJN didnt transmit the details of this operation, it was hand carried and the fleet maintained radio silence No,Sir almost everbody in Washington DC,but surely the names mentioned above as all them were informed about attack by Col.Bratton and Thurman personaly. On Nov.28 They officially informed Hull,Stimson and Knox about japanese fleets target.They did not respond. On eve of Pearl Harbor attack the same team intercepted and decipher the famous message to Nomura. Thurman took the message immediately to Adm.Kramer.He took the message but did not do anything. Thurman tried to contact Stark,Turner and Marshall,no avail, apparently nobody in Washington DC wants to do something to prevent Pearl Harbor. As last resort Thurman went directly to White House with a car driven by his wife and wanted to speak with FDR directly. But instead of FDR he was ablr to speak to Harry Hopkins. So,Mr.Willshaw after Nov.28 Pearl Harbor attack was not surprise attack to anybody in Washington DC,it was a very welcomed opportunity. In other words,Washington was decided to make it happen for domestic politics. Kimmel was fired, I really dont see him staying silent in such a situation. Firing is not a very heavy punishment form |
#45
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Allow a major part of our fleet to be damaged or sunk, lose countless bases
and thousands of POWs and civilians in the Pacific to the Japanese, in order to do *what* to Hitler? He declared war on us, not the other way around. Does your A small price to pay to turn a giant isolationist country into a British ally. You can not make an omelette without breaking eggs. A century old accident in a powder magazine is still providing grist for rumor-mongers? Goebbels would be so proud. Actually I forgat Ft.Sumter another US (Union) PSYOP. Please go to your local library and check out Newspapers and Journal dated prior to Spanish-American War. What they all report? Do they say"OK ,Spanians have nothing to do with Maine disaster" or, "Remember Maine,Teach a lesson to Spain" which one? "Remember Maine" was US battle cry before and during Spanish-US war. It does not matter if you say hundred years later "It was a coal explosion Spanians were not responsible for it" This explosion has been used by US establishment to justify an empire building war and mobilize population. BTW its still not clear why Maine exploded only thing that we know clearly now is that the Spanians had no role to playin her fate. We do. Its been dissected and examined under thousands of literary microscopes - and you know what? It was the Japanese that attacked us. Who knew? After Nov.28 almost everbody in US establishment,but they waited and made it happen. remember it well. Not your version of it, but what really happened. People who hated us used our open society to their advantage and made us pay greatly for our previous freedoms. No where during that event was there any occurance that match your criteria of Americans killing Americans for political gain. Gordon Surely you also believe that Reichstag were burned down by communist fanatics and Polen attacked Third Reich. |
#46
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Subject: For Keith Willshaw...
From: Glenfiddich Date: 6/7/04 9:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: On 07 Jun 2004 20:05:25 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote: ... Whatever happened to bubble and squeak? Well, my family's recipe transplanted well and is thriving nicely here in my Queens kitchen. We also put up some quite passable pickled onions. All washed down with a wee dram of Glenfiddich of course. (:- )) Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#47
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"Denyav" wrote in message ... Which never happened since nobody knew this. Please none of the 'they broke the codes' bull****. The IJN didnt transmit the details of this operation, it was hand carried and the fleet maintained radio silence No,Sir almost everbody in Washington DC,but surely the names mentioned above as all them were informed about attack by Col.Bratton and Thurman personaly. On Nov.28 They officially informed Hull,Stimson and Knox about japanese fleets target.They did not respond. A tough trick since Japanese approval for the attack didnt come until Dec 3rd. What happened on Nov 28th was the decryption of the winds code message sent on Nov 19th This spoke of breaking off diplomatic warnings. As a result Kimmel and Short were sent a message that began "This is to be considered a war warning" On eve of Pearl Harbor attack the same team intercepted and decipher the famous message to Nomura. Which said nothing about an attack of any sort Thurman took the message immediately to Adm.Kramer.He took the message but did not do anything. Thurman tried to contact Stark,Turner and Marshall,no avail, apparently nobody in Washington DC wants to do something to prevent Pearl Harbor. So which is it ? Did he try to contact people or do nothing ? As last resort Thurman went directly to White House with a car driven by his wife and wanted to speak with FDR directly. But instead of FDR he was ablr to speak to Harry Hopkins. Indeed , carrying the following message http://ibiblio.org/pha/myths/14_part.html So,Mr.Willshaw after Nov.28 Pearl Harbor attack was not surprise attack to anybody in Washington DC,it was a very welcomed opportunity. In other words,Washington was decided to make it happen for domestic politics. Read the actual message old boy, the most warlike statement in the thing is "The Japanese Government regrets to have to notify hereby the American Government that in view of the attitude of the American Government it cannot but consider that it is impossible to reach an agreement through further negotiations." Hardly a blueprint of the Pearl Harbor attack plan. Kimmel was fired, I really dont see him staying silent in such a situation. Firing is not a very heavy punishment form For you I'm sure thats true. Keith ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#48
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nt (Krztalizer) wrote in message ...
Remember Maine A century old accident in a powder magazine is still providing grist for rumor-mongers? Sure evil Spaniards did that. http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Lesson_60_Notes.htm Goebbels would be so proud. He learned a lot from Hearst. "You furnish the pictures...I'll furnish the war!" Regards VV |
#49
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As a result Kimmel and Short were sent a message that
began "This is to be considered a war warning" They also added that Pearl Harbor was only possible target.period. So which is it ? Did he try to contact people or do nothing Do you think that Navy and Army units in Pasific were alerted and waiting for Japanase to attack? Hardly a blueprint of the Pearl Harbor attack plan. You could only say that if officers of US military intelligence had NOT told to their superiors cleary "Target is Pearl Harbor" but they did say exactly that since Nov,28. So since Nov,28 they knew the target thanks to work of a few men. Since their superiors did not respond to their warnings one of them,Thurman,sidestepped the line of command and personaly went all way up to White House,with very clear warning of japanase attack with the name of the target "Pearl Harbor". For you I'm sure thats true. Put the blame on Guetenberg and also countless creators of the " Information Age". |
#50
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In message , Keith Willshaw
writes I dont doubt that they'll further enliven the healthy mongrel population of Britain. Just as did the Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Hugenots etc etc etc. Hybrid vigour -- He thinks too much: such men are dangerous. Julius Caesar I:2 Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk |
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