AIM-54

wrote in message
oups.com...
So, it seems not really as a perfect weapon as advertised - good for
large and relatively slow targets like Bears and Badgers, or dumb and
not very manoeuvrable like cruise missiles (even if they are coming in
numbers), but not the best against fighters?

And you concluded all this from the fact that 2 missiles were fired from
very long range before the 25s were in the no-escape zone.. Or you just copy
and pasted it from somewhere?

Sounds to me like this mission was a success because they denied the enemy
to enter the defended airspace. If it was such an innefective weapon, the
Migs wouldn't run from it like crazy, they would just "outmanuever" it,
right?

What I wanted to say were just two things:

1. That Phoenix must have been optimized for Cold War threats (bombers,
cruise missiles) more than for destroying tactical fighters.

I've heard about a AIM-120C sub-version for F/A-18E/F, with an
increased range, that would fill the gap after the F-14/AIM-54 team is
retired. Certainly not as big, and with a smaller warhead...

2. That the more distant the target is, the bigger chance it has to
survive (provided that it is aware of the danger) - no matter how
well-advertised the weapon is.

The only time to experience that for me personally was flying "F/A-18
Korea". AMRAAMs fired to distant targets, even when HUD was shouting
"SHOOT", very often missed (unless the target was a bomber, then the
hit was almost sure). But it was enough to launch an AIM-120 from a
short distance (just a few miles), to make it 80% probability hit.

Simulation is not a real life (though sometimes close to that), but
every weapon has its limitations - no matter if "made in USA" or from
another country...

Last but not least, you are right, the mission objective was achieved.

Kind regards,

Jacek Zemlo
[just an armchair flyer, I hope not as stupid as could be;-)]

My understanding was that they missed due to lack of rocket motors firing.
-Moe
"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
On 1/25/05 7:57 PM, in article
,
"NimBill" wrote:

From: "awg9tech"

Has the Phoenix ever been fired in battle?

I really do not know. The AIM-7 and AIM-9 certainly were.


Got lobbed downrange post Desert Fox, I believe (circa 1999). Shot at a
couple of Iraqi fighters that had strayed across the 32nd. Assessed as a
miss.

--Woody

In the "Shadows of Steel" by Dale Brown there was a fictional story of
USS Abraham Lincoln taking control over Southern Persian Gulf (with an
Iranian carrier "Chomeini" in the North) by sending to the air 3 CAPs
with 2 Tomcats each, F-14s armed with a mix of 2 AIM-9, 2 AIM-7 and 4
AIM-54 (2 normal + 2 extra), and as many as 3 E-2C Hawkeyes (one of
them shot down by ARMs fired from Tu-22M Backfire).

I've read somewhere 3 CAPs 2 F-14s each was a normal procedure in
combat until 1990s(?). The limited number of Tomcats could easily be
augmented by Hornets, but sending 3 of 4 (or 5 ) Hawkeyes to the air at
the same time sounds like totally no Hawkeyes in the air a few hours
later.

Yes, I know this subject was discussed here long ago...

According to the book at least one cruise missile escaped from AIM-54
range (because it was "faster than Phoenix" - uhh, that's funny;-), and
had to be shot down by a Ticonderoga-class cruiser.

Frankly, I am dissapointed with this book - the author describes Mi-8
in a way that proves that should be Ka-25 or Ka-27.
Kind regards,

Jacek Zemlo

wrote in message
oups.com...

Frankly, I am dissapointed with this book - the author describes Mi-8

You really didn't need to include "book - the" in your sentence.

Glenn D.