Position and Hold at uncontrolled field

I was returning to LOM today and after one plane had landed but not yet
cleared the runway, a pilot at the approach end announced "position and
hold". He taxied into position and waited for the previous aircraft to
clear the runway. He then made a normal departure. I was taught at
uncontrolled fields to never take the runway unless you can depart
promptly. Why? In case an aircraft is landing that you aren't aware
of. You may not be aware of the aircraft because he doesn't have a
radio, he called and you didn't hear him, you can't see him, etc.

Is this a new training technique to get students ready for controlled
fields? Most everybody has a radio at my home field but I fly into
fields where many pilots don't have or don't use their radio.

Dave
68 7ECA

dave wrote:
I was returning to LOM today and after one plane had landed but not yet
cleared the runway, a pilot at the approach end announced "position and
hold". He taxied into position and waited for the previous aircraft to
clear the runway. He then made a normal departure. I was taught at
uncontrolled fields to never take the runway unless you can depart
promptly. Why? In case an aircraft is landing that you aren't aware
of. You may not be aware of the aircraft because he doesn't have a
radio, he called and you didn't hear him, you can't see him, etc.
Is this a new training technique to get students ready for controlled
fields? Most everybody has a radio at my home field but I fly into
fields where many pilots don't have or don't use their radio.
Dave
68 7ECA

At an uncontrolled field, you do a 360 and check the airspace before
taking the active.

It is not a new technique; people have been doing it for years. Most
instructors discourage it for the reasons you mention, but there is nothing
illegal about it. There was an enormously long thread about it last year.
Maybe the guy normally flies out of a towered airport and just doesn't know
any better.

Surprising things can happen even at towered airports. Uncontrolled fields
sometimes look like you are flying into a hive of bees. Aircraft flying
instrument approaches can come in from any direction and circle to land at
below pattern altitude. Helicopters may be flying in the opposite pattern.
Almost anybody can be using almost any pattern entry. Airplanes can be using
opposite runways simultaneously. Ultralights fly their own pattern. And
radios -- hah! If the guy is making position calls at all (if he even *has*
radios) he is likely as not broadcasting on the frequency of the airfield he
departed from and annoying the heck out of the tower there. All of it is
legal, or just common human error, a lot of it is required, and just about
anything can happen.

Pilots can holler all they want about that *$()% who just did something they
didn't like, but that's too bad. Nine times out of ten you find that it is
the guy who thinks he was wronged that needs to apologize to somebody.

Keep a sharp eye out and don't assume that everybody follows the same rules
that you do.

"C J Campbell" writes:

radios -- hah! If the guy is making position calls at all (if he even *has*
radios) he is likely as not broadcasting on the frequency of the airfield he
departed from and annoying the heck out of the tower there.

Or calling departure, liftoff, crosswind, turning downwind, downwind
abeam the numbers, base, final, over the threshold, leaving the
runway, clear the runway, ...

And always like this:

"Uh, um, Podunk Traffic, aahhhh...Cessna...Cessna November One Two
Three Four Pa-pa uhhhh Victor aaahhh....turning...downwind....uuhhhh,
Podunk uhhh Airport. I mean Traffic."

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

Pilots can holler all they want about that *$()% who just did something
they
didn't like, but that's too bad. Nine times out of ten you find that it is
the guy who thinks he was wronged that needs to apologize to somebody.

Great summary of this, and almost every other "traffic at uncontrolled
airports" thread.

Michael

Or calling departure, liftoff, crosswind, turning downwind, downwind
abeam the numbers, base, final, over the threshold, leaving the
runway, clear the runway, ...

And always like this:

"Uh, um, Podunk Traffic, aahhhh...Cessna...Cessna November One Two
Three Four Pa-pa uhhhh Victor aaahhh....turning...downwind....uuhhhh,
Podunk uhhh Airport. I mean Traffic."

and by the time they get through all that.. I've entered the pattern on the
opposite side to a parallel runway.. and landed and cleared.. without a
word...

BECAUSE I COULD NOT GET A WORD IN BETWEEN ALL OF HIS RADIO CALLS AND
EVERYONE ELSE IN HIS PATTERN FOLLOWING HIS ****POOR EXAMPLE

"Glider tow clear, 20L"

Oh, and the local flight school uses the same CTAF freq to broadcast their
training positions and altitudes over a near by dry (right now wet) lake
bed.. it is within 5 miles of the airport, but outside the traffic pattern..
and then all the other "transient" calls made by pilots flying the highway..
IFR (I follow roads) well above the traffic pattern altitude...

but they know or do not know that there are gliders in the area.. its to
early in the day for lift to go that high... 50% of which don't carry
radios.. and there is an active jump zone 4 miles south.. but if they'd shut
up they could hear if the jump zone was active or not..

::: stepping down off radio discipline soapbox :::
BT

"dave" wrote in message
...
I was returning to LOM today and after one plane had landed but not yet
cleared the runway, a pilot at the approach end announced "position and
hold". He taxied into position and waited for the previous aircraft to
clear the runway. He then made a normal departure. I was taught at
uncontrolled fields to never take the runway unless you can depart
promptly. Why? In case an aircraft is landing that you aren't aware
of. You may not be aware of the aircraft because he doesn't have a
radio, he called and you didn't hear him, you can't see him, etc.

Is this a new training technique to get students ready for controlled
fields? Most everybody has a radio at my home field but I fly into
fields where many pilots don't have or don't use their radio.

Dave
68 7ECA

I have never understood why some pilots use this technique to attempt
suicide. If they want to kill themselves why waste a perfectly good
airplane.

In article ,
dave wrote:

I was returning to LOM today and after one plane had landed but not yet
cleared the runway, a pilot at the approach end announced "position and
hold". He taxied into position and waited for the previous aircraft to
clear the runway. He then made a normal departure. I was taught at
uncontrolled fields to never take the runway unless you can depart
promptly. Why? In case an aircraft is landing that you aren't aware
of. You may not be aware of the aircraft because he doesn't have a
radio, he called and you didn't hear him, you can't see him, etc.

Is this a new training technique to get students ready for controlled
fields? Most everybody has a radio at my home field but I fly into
fields where many pilots don't have or don't use their radio.

If the guy went position and hold to do his runup would be one thing.
But getting into position as other traffic is clearing isn't a big deal.
It's only a few seconds, not much different than taxiing out and
departing as far as risk of being hit by the blind pilot on final. By
getting out on the runway he's making the runway available sooner for
landing traffic. Good thinking on his part.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

LOL...a couple of months ago nellis approach almost let me fly into a mountain
because some guy from utah here for xmas shopping, flying out, I was right behind
him, was doing that on the radio, ummm hhmmm mmmmummm and so on, I almost told him
to spit it out and shut up but he wouldnt stop talking!
finally as I am nearing the mountain getting ready to make the decision to deviate
from my course ATC had me on, he shut up and let me ask to make my turn.

I hate it when people just dont spit out what they have to say .

Bob Fry wrote:

And always like this:

"Uh, um, Podunk Traffic, aahhhh...Cessna...Cessna November One Two
Three Four Pa-pa uhhhh Victor aaahhh....turning...downwind....uuhhhh,
Podunk uhhh Airport. I mean Traffic."

it can be a big deal, the first and only time I flew into apple valley, those
country boys out there were landing 2 and 3 planes at a time. It was a mess.
half of them wasnt even talking, I think they figured that since the other
guy wasnt off the runway yet they did not need to make call since no one
could take off.


Dale wrote:



If the guy went position and hold to do his runup would be one thing.
But getting into position as other traffic is clearing isn't a big deal.
It's only a few seconds, not much different than taxiing out and
departing as far as risk of being hit by the blind pilot on final. By
getting out on the runway he's making the runway available sooner for
landing traffic. Good thinking on his part.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html