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#11
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"Newps" wrote in message
... Funny stuff, if it wasn't so assinine. You Sir, are a boorish dolt. Your language is offensive and you, no doubt, know not of what you speak. I do. Been there - done that. Won't be stupid enough to do it again. If you don't like what you are hearing, be polite enough to shut the **** up and do what you like. Are you associated with ANN? Rich S. |
#12
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You are presuming that I am going to use the stock ECU (engine control
unit)..which is the last thing I would do. Stock ECU's do strange and unpredictable things like turn off (or power down) the engine to "protect" it when sensor readings get out of spec (like oil temp or pressure parameters, etc) The issue of ECU's have been discussed EXTENSIVELY in the forums that I frequent: one is a list-serv dedicated to rotary engines, and the other is a canard forum with a rotary engine portion. If you were a member there you could spend hours and still not cover all the material, some practical and some theoretical. The ECU we will be using will be able to tune/make program adjustments to the fuel map, but once programmed can operate without input from the sensor. Also, the neat thing about the Mazda rotary is.. no valves. Dave AINut wrote: All of the dozen or so airports I've contacted about mogas only have 87 octane. All are considerably higher priced than the most expensive gas station. If you use 100ll in an engine that has valves designed for no lead usage, you're probably going to lose that engine. Also, the O2 sensors will clog with lead very shortly. A propane torch can burn the lead off it but you'll have to remove all the O2 sensors to do that. If the O2 sensors clog up during flight, the engine computer will go into limp home mode. This usually means a *drastic* cut in horsepower, sometimes engine stoppage. HTH. Dave S wrote: Rich S. wrote: Make that last idea a *must*, Dave. You don't know what you are getting out of a strange mogas tank. It may be 100° out and that mogas could've been sitting in the tank since winter. My commandments read: 1. Never use mogas from an unfamiliar source. 2. Always test for alcohol. 3. Never use mogas above 5,000' density altitude. 4. Always check for water. 5. Never use mogas above 80° F. Remember - 100 LL can foul a spark plug. Mogas can boil, give you vapor lock, and stop your engine RFN. Which would you prefer? Would you like fries with that? Rich S. Dude... I'm using mogas because I'm using a MO-engine. I've driven cars at over 5000 ft (Lake Tahoe.. 9000 ft) MSL.. and in temps over 100* F... and alcohol wont hurt MY engine because the seals in it and the fuel system are DESIGNED to use motor gas in all of its domestic forumulations. I think some of those "absolutes" you are listing are overkill. I will be using fuel injected engine with an automotive fuel rail regulated at 40 PSI over upper deck pressure..through a recirculating fuel circut with firesleeved hoses. I don't think vapor lock is gonna be the issue here. I'm just planning on using 100LL because I dont want to land on a 2000 ft sod strip 40 miles from the nearest town of over 50,000 people. I'm into flying to travel to where the people are |
#13
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Rich S. wrote: "Newps" wrote in message ... Funny stuff, if it wasn't so assinine. You Sir, are a boorish dolt. Your language is offensive and you, no doubt, know not of what you speak. I do. Been there - done that. Won't be stupid enough to do it again. If you don't like what you are hearing, be polite enough to shut the **** up and do what you like. Are you associated with ANN? Rich S. Actually I think he's an ATC type, Atlanta Center or something. I've noticed he usually has the ATC issues down pat and can quote chapter and verse regarding them. I also thought the restrictions were a little over the top, but I'm not running mo-gas in a carburated lycoming or continental, so its an apples/oranges comparison. You have ground rules that you have established based on what your personal safety margin is.. I cant argue with that at all. The strange source caveat DOES apply to me, more so with low volume providers who usually let their first customer of the day sump their tanks for them by filling up their plane. Again, from a practical standpoint, the fuel will be tankered in my pickup truck with a 50 gallon transfer tank.. all the rest will be blue stuff.. its just too much hassle otherwise (unless my favorite uncle in SC lets me leave a transfer tank in his favorite truck) Dave |
#14
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"Rich S." wrote in message
... [...] Gas that is not blended for altitude and or season (temperature) can make the fan stop turning. In your car, you likely bought gas that was intended for use at Lake Tahoe and/or in temps over 100° F. That's silly. We have driven a Suburban, with its 42 gallon tank, all over the US, including Lake Tahoe. We bought the fuel we rode into Tahoe on at least 500 miles away, not far above sea level, in the desert. Many times, fuel purchased in one locale took us right into a place with completely different characteristics (altitude, temperature, whatever). I wouldn't be surprised to find there are road vehicles with even greater range (the actual range of our Suburban is about 800 miles, but we didn't roll into Lake Tahoe on fumes, of course). In fact, I'm pretty sure the hybrids do, and I know at least two that have been driven on long trips. Never heard any complaints about gas troubles there either. I've seen the "well, but the auto gas is specially formulated for the region in which it's sold" line before. It just doesn't hold up to common sense and personal experience. If the gas *is* specially formulated, then using it in the "wrong" place certainly doesn't cause anything so serious as engine stoppage, or even any significant performance difference (ie, noticeable by the driver). Pete |
#15
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"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ... "Rich S." wrote in message ... [...] Gas that is not blended for altitude and or season (temperature) can make the fan stop turning. In your car, you likely bought gas that was intended for use at Lake Tahoe and/or in temps over 100° F. That's silly. We have driven a Suburban, with its 42 gallon tank, all over the US, including Lake Tahoe. We bought the fuel we rode into Tahoe on at least 500 miles away, not far above sea level, in the desert. Many times, fuel purchased in one locale took us right into a place with completely different characteristics (altitude, temperature, whatever). Formulations aside, my big concern with buying mogas from a podunk airport tank is that the gas could be old and contaminated. This would be due to the small number of planes that are actually set up to burn mogas. With 100LL, you can feel a bit more assured that the fuel has a had a decent "turnover" rate and the fuel is fresher and cleaner. -Trent PP-ASEL |
#16
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Dave S wrote: Actually I think he's an ATC type, Atlanta Center or something. ATC yes. A center? Good God no. I also thought the restrictions were a little over the top, They are ridiculous. but I'm not running mo-gas in a carburated lycoming or continental, I am. Hot summers, 90+ here at home at 3650 MSL, which works out to approx 7000 DA and also play in the mountains. Sky is the limit for DA there. To say that you won't use mogas above say 70 or 80 degrees or above a certain DA just shows a complete lack of knoweledge. |
#17
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Peter Duniho wrote: "Rich S." wrote in message ... [...] Gas that is not blended for altitude and or season (temperature) can make the fan stop turning. In your car, you likely bought gas that was intended for use at Lake Tahoe and/or in temps over 100° F. That's silly. We have driven a Suburban, with its 42 gallon tank, all over the US, including Lake Tahoe. We bought the fuel we rode into Tahoe on at least 500 miles away, not far above sea level, in the desert. No kidding. I can drive 65 miles from my 100+ degree summer temps to the Top of the World store on the Beartooth Pass, elev 11,000 and temps in the 30's on an average day. They sell the same gas as I buy here. The fact is the higher the altitude the lower quality of gas that you need. |
#18
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Trent Moorehead wrote: Formulations aside, my big concern with buying mogas from a podunk airport tank is that the gas could be old and contaminated. This would be due to the small number of planes that are actually set up to burn mogas. With 100LL, you can feel a bit more assured that the fuel has a had a decent "turnover" rate and the fuel is fresher and cleaner. From a podunk airport all bets are off for any type of gas. My mechanic is the manager of just such an airport. He installed a 12,000 gallon 100LL above ground self fueling setup a few years ago. He sometimes doesn't buy gas for 7-8 months. |
#19
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-- -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" "Rich S." wrote in message ... "Dave S" wrote in message k.net... Dude... I'm using mogas because I'm using a MO-engine. I've driven cars at over 5000 ft (Lake Tahoe.. 9000 ft) MSL.. and in temps over 100* F... and alcohol wont hurt MY engine because the seals in it and the fuel system are DESIGNED to use motor gas in all of its domestic forumulations. I think some of those "absolutes" you are listing are overkill. I will be using fuel injected engine with an automotive fuel rail regulated at 40 PSI over upper deck pressure..through a recirculating fuel circut with firesleeved hoses. I don't think vapor lock is gonna be the issue here. I'm just planning on using 100LL because I dont want to land on a 2000 ft sod strip 40 miles from the nearest town of over 50,000 people. I'm into flying to travel to where the people are So? You've a different set of commandments. I just related *mine*. :^) Rich S. |
#20
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1. Never use mogas from an unfamiliar source.
At an airport? That's crazy. From a car gas station? Absolutely. 2. Always test for alcohol. Good idea, if you don't know the source. 3. Never use mogas above 5,000' density altitude. Nonsense. 4. Always check for water. Absolutely. Same with avgas. 5. Never use mogas above 80° F. That's ridiculous. Our plane has run on mogas (Lycoming O-540) since we bought it in 2002. The previous owner ran it on mogas for over ten years. The ONLY time I've EVER had engine trouble has been while operating with 100 LL -- which has far more lead in it than my engine was designed to run on. I would use car gas if it cost MORE than avgas -- that's how much better my plane runs on it. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
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