Circle to Land @ KRBG

The FAA will establish controlled airspace as part of the
authorization of an IAP. The FAA must have control of
airspace in order to issue a clearance, Class G does not
meet that requirement.

We seem to have a problem, my experience is just what I've
said...
8,000 hours;FAR 141 former chief flight instructor, FAR 135
Director of Operations, single-pilot IFR in all models King
Air 90 ,200 and 300 and other ASEL/AMEL Beech aircraft.
Gold Seal CFI ASMEI. No violations.

What do you have? What do you think I'm fibbing about?


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:BNv%f.3146$8q.678@dukeread08...
|
| Yes, and I will stand by the statement, there are no IAP
in
| Class G, by definition of the airspace. There are IAP
that
| penetrate Class G at 1200 or 700 ft AGL.
|
|
| There is nothing in the definition of Class G airspace
that prevents having
| IAPs in it. You cannot stand by your previous statement,
"There are no
| instrument approaches in Class G" airspace, and now
acknowledge that there
| are instrument approaches in Class G airspace.
|
| Your knowledge level is far below what would be expected
from someone with
| the experience and ratings you claim to have. I think
you're a fibber.
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:4Tv%f.3147$8q.416@dukeread08...

You can always request a contact approach and fly any
altitude and path including the normal VFR pattern and still
be "on an IFR clearance."


Well, you can always request a contact approach, but you can't always get
one. Clearance for a contact approach requires a reported ground visibility
of at least one mile. Not all airports have weather reporting.



If you are working for an
operator who does not allow cancellation of IFR, then it is
up to the PIC to determine the method required to comply
with IAP and VFR traffic pattern.


Compliance with the "VFR traffic pattern" is not required in this case.
Review the regulation, before you get to " make all turns of that airplane
to the left", you have "unless otherwise authorized or required." If you're
on the VOR-A and intend to land on runway 16 compliance with the restriction
on circling east of the runway will require turns to the right

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:Wmx%f.3160$8q.947@dukeread08...

If the weather was as good as you say, there is no
prohibition on operating under IFR and VFR at the same time,
the approach clearance is a clearance to operate in the
protected airspace,


How would one operate IFR and VFR at the same time on this approach?



just follow the IFR rules while in IMC
and when in VMC, fly safely.


It's a good idea to fly safely when in IMC as well.

5-4-24. Contact Approach

a. Pilots operating in accordance with an IFR flight
plan, provided they are clear of clouds and have at least 1
mile flight visibility and can reasonably expect to continue
to the destination airport in those conditions, may request
ATC authorization for a contact approach.

b. Controllers may authorize a contact approach
provided:

1. The contact approach is specifically requested by
the pilot. ATC cannot initiate this approach.

EXAMPLE-
Request contact approach.

2. The reported ground visibility at the destination
airport is at least 1 statute mile.

3. The contact approach will be made to an airport
having a standard or special instrument approach procedure.

4. Approved separation is applied between aircraft so
cleared and between these aircraft and other IFR or special
VFR aircraft.

EXAMPLE-
Cleared contact approach (and, if required) at or
below (altitude) (routing) if not possible (alternative
procedures) and advise.

c. A contact approach is an approach procedure that
may be used by a pilot (with prior authorization from ATC)
in lieu of conducting a standard or special IAP to an
airport. It is not intended for use by a pilot on an IFR
flight clearance to operate to an airport not having a
published and functioning IAP. Nor is it intended for an
aircraft to conduct an instrument approach to one airport
and then, when "in the clear," discontinue that approach and
proceed to another airport. In the execution of a contact
approach, the pilot assumes the responsibility for
obstruction clearance. If radar service is being received,
it will automatically terminate when the pilot is instructed
to change to advisory frequency.

Note that FLIGHT VISIBILITY of ONE MILE is required
and the pilot determines flught visibility.




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their
rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and
duties.




"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
nk.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:4Tv%f.3147$8q.416@dukeread08...
|
| You can always request a contact approach and fly any
| altitude and path including the normal VFR pattern and
still
| be "on an IFR clearance."
|
|
| Well, you can always request a contact approach, but you
can't always get
| one. Clearance for a contact approach requires a reported
ground visibility
| of at least one mile. Not all airports have weather
reporting.
|
|
|
| If you are working for an
| operator who does not allow cancellation of IFR, then it
is
| up to the PIC to determine the method required to comply
| with IAP and VFR traffic pattern.
|
|
| Compliance with the "VFR traffic pattern" is not required
in this case.
| Review the regulation, before you get to " make all turns
of that airplane
| to the left", you have "unless otherwise authorized or
required." If you're
| on the VOR-A and intend to land on runway 16 compliance
with the restriction
| on circling east of the runway will require turns to the
right
|
|

The same way you always follow the rules, IFR lets you fly
into and near clouds and when under IFR in VMC you also
follow the see and avoid rules of VFR.

I must ask, are you having a reaction to your medication?


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:Wmx%f.3160$8q.947@dukeread08...
|
| If the weather was as good as you say, there is no
| prohibition on operating under IFR and VFR at the same
time,
| the approach clearance is a clearance to operate in the
| protected airspace,
|
|
| How would one operate IFR and VFR at the same time on this
approach?
|
|
|
| just follow the IFR rules while in IMC
| and when in VMC, fly safely.
|
|
| It's a good idea to fly safely when in IMC as well.
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:zVz%f.3168$8q.1032@dukeread08...

5-4-24. Contact Approach

a. Pilots operating in accordance with an IFR flight
plan, provided they are clear of clouds and have at least 1
mile flight visibility and can reasonably expect to continue
to the destination airport in those conditions, may request
ATC authorization for a contact approach.

b. Controllers may authorize a contact approach
provided:

1. The contact approach is specifically requested by
the pilot. ATC cannot initiate this approach.

EXAMPLE-
Request contact approach.

2. The reported ground visibility at the destination
airport is at least 1 statute mile.

3. The contact approach will be made to an airport
having a standard or special instrument approach procedure.

4. Approved separation is applied between aircraft so
cleared and between these aircraft and other IFR or special
VFR aircraft.

EXAMPLE-
Cleared contact approach (and, if required) at or
below (altitude) (routing) if not possible (alternative
procedures) and advise.

c. A contact approach is an approach procedure that
may be used by a pilot (with prior authorization from ATC)
in lieu of conducting a standard or special IAP to an
airport. It is not intended for use by a pilot on an IFR
flight clearance to operate to an airport not having a
published and functioning IAP. Nor is it intended for an
aircraft to conduct an instrument approach to one airport
and then, when "in the clear," discontinue that approach and
proceed to another airport. In the execution of a contact
approach, the pilot assumes the responsibility for
obstruction clearance. If radar service is being received,
it will automatically terminate when the pilot is instructed
to change to advisory frequency.

Note that FLIGHT VISIBILITY of ONE MILE is required
and the pilot determines flught visibility.


See 5-4-24.b.2. above. Note that the reported ground visibility at the
destination airport must be at least 1 statute mile in order for ATC to
issue a clearance for a contact approach. Note also that actually reading
what you intend to post prior to posting it can help you to appear less
stupid.

How is it that someone with the ratings and experience you claim to possess
was not aware a contact approach required a reported ground visibility of a
mile or more?

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:Y1A%f.3169$8q.1299@dukeread08...

The same way you always follow the rules, IFR lets you fly
into and near clouds and when under IFR in VMC you also
follow the see and avoid rules of VFR.


"See and avoid" is not a VFR rule. "See and avoid" comes from FAR
91.113(b), you'll find it among the General rules of Part 91 Subpart B, FARs
91.101 through 91.149. You'll find Visual Flight Rules, FARs 91.151 through
91.165, immediately after them.

How is it that someone with the ratings and experience you claim to possess
doesn't have a better understanding of Part 91?



I must ask, are you having a reaction to your medication?


Nope, I'm feeling exceptionally good today!

I must ask, are you related to Norm Melick?

How would one operate IFR and VFR at the same time on this approach?

You would follow IFR (Instrument flight rules) and VFR (visual flight
rules) at the same time. VFR is primarily see and avoid. If you are in
VMC, you must see and avoid.

To follow IFR and VFR at the same time is more restrictive than to
simply follow IFR and disregard VFR, which you can do when you are IMC.

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
om...
How would one operate IFR and VFR at the same time on this approach?

You would follow IFR (Instrument flight rules) and VFR (visual flight
rules) at the same time. VFR is primarily see and avoid. If you are in
VMC, you must see and avoid.

But see-and-avoid isn't specifically a VFR requirement. In fact, 91.113b
says explicitly, "When weather conditions permit, *regardless of whether an
operation is conducted under IFR or VFR*, vigilance shall be maintained by
each person operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft"
(emphasis added).

So seeing and avoiding during an instrument approach does not amount to some
sort of IFR-VFR hybrid. Rather, it is just IFR.

--Gary

"Jose" wrote in message
om...

You would follow IFR (Instrument flight rules) and VFR (visual flight
rules) at the same time. VFR is primarily see and avoid. If you are in
VMC, you must see and avoid.


How is that following IFR (Instrument flight rules) and VFR (visual flight
rules) at the same time? "See and avoid" is not a VFR rule. "See and
avoid" comes from FAR 91.113(b), you'll find it among the General rules of
Part 91 Subpart B, FARs 91.101 through 91.149. You'll find Visual Flight
Rules, FARs 91.151 through 91.165, immediately after them.