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Subject: Bomber-jacket leather and our law
From: Cub Driver Date: 9/16/03 2:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: On 15 Sep 2003 09:07:14 -0700, (Michael) wrote: No leather in it though... cotton shell with an alpaca lining. Much warmer than an A-2 (or a B-3 if you wear an F-3 suit under B-10) and much easier to mass produce. I think it was about the time of The Great Santini when the fighter? pilots of the USAF persuaded the guvmint to give them back their leather jackets. Cotton of course is better than nylon, but it still burns. Pilots continue to favor leather today, though they aren't consistent about this. I've never seen a pilot at the local airfield togged out in leather helmet or trousers. Probably, like the Great Santini's pals, they like the leather jacket for its WWI and WWII associations. all the best -- Dan Ford email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9 see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com I notice that you only reference pilots and pilot preferences in regard to jackets. It took a lot more than just pilots in bombers to get the entire job done, How soon they forget. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
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#24
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Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
On 15 Sep 2003 09:07:14 -0700, (Michael) wrote: No leather in it though... cotton shell with an alpaca lining. Much warmer than an A-2 (or a B-3 if you wear an F-3 suit under B-10) and much easier to mass produce. I think it was about the time of The Great Santini when the fighter? pilots of the USAF persuaded the guvmint to give them back their leather jackets. The USAF brought the A-2 back in '87 or '88. The story as I read it was that a squadron commander saw the A-2s his men were buying privately to wear off base, and thought it might be a good moral builder if he could get approval for the entire squadron to get them to wear on duty. His request went up the chain of command and someone along the way got the idea they'd be a good moral builder for all USAF aircrew and it went from there. Cotton of course is better than nylon, but it still burns. I don't know which is better or worse. The AAF only made cotton flight jackets for the last two years of WWII, then switched to nylon, which they used until the 70s. So I'd assume the nylon was giving them some sort of advantage the cotton wasn't and that's why they used it, but who knows. Neither's as good as Nomex, that's for sure. Pilots continue to favor leather today, though they aren't consistent about this. I've never seen a pilot at the local airfield togged out in leather helmet or trousers. Probably, like the Great Santini's pals, they like the leather jacket for its WWI and WWII associations. Oh, no doubt. The leather jackets have a lot more style than the nylon and Nomex ones, and a certain vintage mystique that gives them lots of appeal. But a leather windbreaker designed in the '30s and intended for summer use in an open cockpit doesn't really fit in today though. The AAF realized the A-2 didn't fit in in the 40s, and that's why they switched to the B-10. Leather is too hot and doesn't breathe in a closed cockpit at lower alt, and isn't warm enough at high alt. In the case of the Navy's jacket, the G-1, I've read it hasn't been worn in aircraft with ejection seats since the 50s because its fur collar gets in the way of harnesses, the helmet and its wiring. Why on earth we still make either jacket (A-2 & G-1) for military use is beyond me. They aren't fucntional in the air, they fit into a limited temp range on the ground, and the current jackets just aren't that good looking IMHO (*especially* when compared to vintage jackets from the 30s-50s). But if they make the guys and gals feel better, I guess we'll keep making 'em. Spending $100-$150 on a jacket for someone isn't that much after you've already spent millions training them, is it? ~Michael |
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Why on earth we still make either jacket (A-2 & G-1) for military use is beyond me. They aren't fucntional in the air, they fit into a limited temp range on the ground, and the current jackets just aren't that good looking IMHO (*especially* when compared to vintage jackets from the 30s-50s). But if they make the guys and gals feel better, I guess we'll keep making 'em. Spending $100-$150 on a jacket for someone isn't that much after you've already spent millions training them, is it? ~Michael The Air Force did it to slow down the rate of pilots going to airlines. At least that's what they told us in commander's call and the Air Force newsrag. They also said helicopter pilots weren't going to get them because they weren't going to the airlines. In any event the leather jackets are not authorized for use in flight. Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired |
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Mike Marron wrote:
Back in my H.S. days on the ranch I often wore my Dad's arctic flight jacket while doing the chores. Dark blue nylon with the old 50's-era USAF insignia dyed on the shoulder. Ideal when sitting in a saddle rounding up the herd at 30-below zero since it was neatly trimmed at the waist, had a full, zippered hood lined with genuine wolf hair that completely kept out the driving snow (although it was like looking through a tunnel). The heavy jacket was issued to him while stationed at Elmendorf back in the early 60's and still hangs in my closet. Quality, unique jacket, and when traveling up north heads turn to admire it. -Mike Marron The RCAF 'Winter Flying Jacket' sounds quite similar to this. Dark blue nylon outer shell with a smooth nylon quilted and insulated interior. some kind of long coarse hair around the full zippered hood. Great jacket for maintaining your body temp in a chilly goose blind. -- -Gord. |
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I rode fence in
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I rode fence in Colorado winters (on sunny days) in a Royal Canadian Navy sea
coat. It was thick lined cotton, about the length of a USN pea coat, and wore like iron until I lost it in a bar in Taos. Where did you ranch, Mike? Joe F Back in my H.S. days on the ranch I often wore my Dad's arctic flight jacket while doing the chores. Dark blue nylon with the old 50's-era USAF insignia dyed on the shoulder. Ideal when sitting in a saddle rounding up the herd at 30-below |
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On 15 Sep 2003 09:07:14 -0700, (Michael) wrote:
They are describing the USN G-1 (I'm wearing one today), but the spec for that jacket was changed from goat to cow back in '69 or '70. G-1s are still made of goat for the public, but I thought all the jackets produced for the Navy were cow. Maybe some are goat... The USAF uses goat for their current A-2, and recently made changes to the jacket pattern to make it easier to procure quality goatskin for the jackets. As for using US or foreign leather, who cares? The US shouldn't even be producing either jacket. Both the A-2 and G-1 are useless in the cockpit of modern AC. I don't buy the story that there is a shortage of goatskin in the US though. I was wearing my A2 last week when the temps dropped into the 50s at night. I also have two Navy G-1s. My old issue G-1 is battered and well worn (it's over 25 years old). My wife bought me both a new G-1 and an A-2 three years ago. She ordered them from a company called "Airborne Leathers". Quality is as good as current issue (both cowhide as is the current issue G-1), but the price is dirt cheap. I compared these two against American made $700 name brand jackets and found the construction to be just as robust, although the leather quality was a bit inferior. However, when you compare prices, the Chinese made jackets are an unbeatable value. For example, MIL spec G-1 is $119, pile lined, US NAVY punched on the wind flap exactly like issue. A-2 in goatskin or cowhide, cotton lined is just $99!!! They look great, fit great and wear like iron. And they smell marvelous. My A-2 is especially soft and supple. Airborne Leathers turns around orders quickly, they ship in quality boxes and you have 30 days to wear the jacket and should you not like it, just send it back for a refund. You can visit their website at: http://www.airborne-leathers.com My regards, Widewing (C.C. Jordan) http://www.worldwar2aviation.com http://www.netaces.org http://www.hitechcreations.com |
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