Sport Pilot license

"Jerry Springer" wrote in message
...
Ron Wanttaja wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:55:43 -0700, Jerry Springer
wrote:


Let them keep flying but at least have an AME give them a "4th class"
physical every two years with basically the same restrictions as the currnet
SPL.


The medical requirements haven't changed, only the documentation. The same
conditions that make you ineligible for a third class medical *also*
disqualify
you for Sport Pilot. It isn't a "Fourth Class," it's just the ability to
self-certify like glider pilots.

Hi Ron, your points are well taken. Do you really believe that a lot
of people that are not accountable to anyone but themselves for their medical
conditions are really going to ground themselves when they should? I
understand there is not a "4th class medical" but there should
be a monitoring system to watch people that are flying with known physical
conditions.

There is a monitoring system today; it is the pilots around you and the
people who rent you planes. Sure, you can own your own plane and fly it out of
your own pasture and nobody will ever know, but those lucky people are a tiny
minority. The simple fact is that the statistics do not support medical
certification. A visit to the AME once every two years does virtually nothing
to screen you for medical incapacitation over the following two years,
particularly sudden incapacitation.

There is also a large "test population" (glider pilots) that has been
flying around for decades without medical screening that shows no statistical
difference in medically related accidents compared to the general population of
pilots. Do glider pilots always stop flying when they should? No,
unfortunately they don't. But those people go through the same peer pressure
that you see at your local airport when a pilot starts to decline. Declining
"senior" pilots are encouraged to fly with a friend, encouraged to choose a new
licensed pilot for "co-mentoring", and if all else fails, they are encouraged to
leave, first subtly, and finally bluntly. I have seen the painful process
unfold several times.

Vaughn

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:21:37 -0700, Ron Wanttaja
wrote:



In any case, Sport Pilot basically formalizes something that's been going on for
a long time: pilots with disqualifying medical conditions continuing to fly.
Personally, I feel far more endangered by the guy in the huge Canyonero SUV in
the lane next to me on I-5 than by a J-3 popping by overhead.
.

Ron Wanttaja

Ron,

I flew next to a guy that literally couldn't find the runway
unless his co-pilot pointed it out to him. He needed a
magnifying glass to read a restaurant menu. I didn't
realize how bad he was until it was too late and we were
already well into our long trip back east.

He kept flying even though he was obviously ready for a
white cane...

You probably know him, too... is he still flying??

John

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

There is also a large "test population" (glider pilots) that has been
flying around for decades without medical screening that shows no
statistical
difference in medically related accidents compared to the general
population of
pilots. Do glider pilots always stop flying when they should? No,
unfortunately they don't. But those people go through the same peer
pressure
that you see at your local airport when a pilot starts to decline.
Declining
"senior" pilots are encouraged to fly with a friend, encouraged to choose
a new
licensed pilot for "co-mentoring", and if all else fails, they are
encouraged to
leave, first subtly, and finally bluntly. I have seen the painful
process
unfold several times.

Vaughn


On the other side of the coin I have observed glider pilots recognize their
limitations and stop flying when they realized their skills were declining.

One example is a pilot in his early 80s who after successfully completing a
500 km triangle flight out of Sun Valley, ID landed and stated: "That was a
great flight! It is the way I want to remember soaring." He immediately
put his glider on the market and cancelled his life time membership in the
Soaring Society of American. He still is actively involved in hiking, cross
country skiing and attends the local soaring social events.

I hope I am that wise and recognize when my vision, reflexes, etc endanger
myself and those around me.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:06:10 -0700, John Ammeter
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:21:37 -0700, Ron Wanttaja
wrote:

In any case, Sport Pilot basically formalizes something that's been going on for
a long time: pilots with disqualifying medical conditions continuing to fly.
Personally, I feel far more endangered by the guy in the huge Canyonero SUV in
the lane next to me on I-5 than by a J-3 popping by overhead.

I flew next to a guy that literally couldn't find the runway
unless his co-pilot pointed it out to him. He needed a
magnifying glass to read a restaurant menu. I didn't
realize how bad he was until it was too late and we were
already well into our long trip back east.

He kept flying even though he was obviously ready for a
white cane...

You probably know him, too... is he still flying??

Yep...he's the "eye condition" guy I mentioned. His field of vision was so bad
that he always lined up on the left edge of the runway, because he could make
out the asphalt/grass interface easier than trying to center himself. He'd slip
the plane to the right as he crossed the fence. As you say, a bit of a shock if
you didn't know about it. I half-slid up the back of the seat as my legs
involuntarily stiffened the first time I flew with him, saying "we're off to the
left, we're off to the left" while I watched us close in on the edge lighting.

He actually had surgery a while back, and I believe he's a lot better. He did
marvel at how much better he could see, now.

Ron Wanttaja

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:21:44 -0700, "Rich S."
wrote:

"John Ammeter" wrote in message
.. .

I flew next to a guy that literally couldn't find the runway
unless his co-pilot pointed it out to him. He needed a
magnifying glass to read a restaurant menu. I didn't
realize how bad he was until it was too late and we were
already well into our long trip back east.

He kept flying even though he was obviously ready for a
white cane...

You probably know him, too... is he still flying??

Dammit, John - you promised. Zip the lip! 8-)

Rich "Which way did he go??" S.



No, No.... you're the one that gets short of breath lifting
a beer mug off the table..

John

Patrick,
I hope to get an airplane or two placed up there soon. Come down and
fly with us after Airventure.

Rick

W P Dixon wrote:
Hey Rick,
I sure wish you could sell a few of those planes over here in east TN. I
may have to come over to Memphis and take one for a ride! Lord that's a
longgg drive! I need a plane and cert to go fly a plane and get a
cert!!!!!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Rick Pellicciotti" wrote in message
...
When our airplanes get here next month, we will be charging $69/hr wet for
our S-LSA airplane (Aerostar Festival). Our instructors get $30/hr so
your dual time will be $99/hr. Figure 30 hours for the average person and
the cost for a Sport Pilot license will be $3,000.00.

Since we only use CFI's for your training, all of the dual that you do for
your Sport Pilot license will count towards a Private later if you choose
to go for it.

Rick Pellicciotti
http://www.lightsportflying.com


keepitrunning wrote:

Has anyone come up with an estimated cost of a sport pilot license versus
a regular pilot's license. Then would it be reasonable to add the
requirements for a pilot's license later?

Any thoughts and comments are appreciated.

Gary

I will research this later when I have a little more time and give the
specific FARs. In the meantime, I will clarify this by saying that I
had a conversation with my FSDO about this and the consensus was that
the language in the FARs states that instruction for a private pilot
certificate can only be given by an instructor that is authorized to
give it. A flight instructor/Sport Pilot is indeed a Certified Flight
Instructor - Sport Pilot. There is no authorization for a CFI-SP to
give instruction for a rating or certificate above the level of Sport
Pilot. Therefore, it is the interpretation of my FSDO that cross
country dual given by a CFI-SP does not count toward the requirement
for cross country dual when going for a Private certificate.

The FSDO does agree that all solo time counts. By using "conventional'
or 'pre-sport pilot" CFI's for your Sport Pilot training, they are
authorized to give dual instruction toward the Private certificate and
therefore your dual that you receive during Sport Pilot training can be
counted towards your future Private certificate.

Again, this my FSDO's interpretation. I am travelling and when I get
home, I will get out my notes from the meeting and write more about it
including FAR references.

Perhaps somone from NAFI will jump in here and clarify this more.

Rick Pellicciotti
http://www.lightsportflying.com

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:40:31 -0700, Jerry Springer wrote:


Ron Wanttaja wrote:

The medical requirements haven't changed, only the documentation. The same
conditions that make you ineligible for a third class medical *also* disqualify
you for Sport Pilot. It isn't a "Fourth Class," it's just the ability to
self-certify like glider pilots.

Hi Ron, your points are well taken. Do you really believe that a lot
of people that are not accountable to anyone but themselves for their
medical conditions are really going to ground themselves when they
should?


Jerry, what grounds them *now*?

Just sitting here and thinking a moment, I came up with the names of five guys
who continued/are still continuing to fly with conditions that would prevent
them from receiving an FAA medical. Cataracts, heart problems, diabetes, kidney
stones, and I forget what the fifth one was. Ironic, really, 'cause he was the
only one that was caught by the FAA.

How? His engine failed on takeoff and he crashed. No injuries, but wasn't able
to produce his medical certificate to the accident investigator, who
subsequently determined he'd been denied renewal.

In the 20 or so years I've owned airplanes, I've never had to show my medical
except during BFRs. All the guys I mention above own their own planes...and I
bet they don't get BFRs, either.

Your points about public perception are certainly valid, but in truth, there's
nothing that prevents *anyone* from flying a personally-owned aircraft without a
medical. They can dodge it completely...or pencil whip their way through it.
Other than the few physical items that are checked during the examination, the
only way the FAA finds out whether an applicant has a invalidating condition is
if the person admits it on the application form. Yes, it's perjury. But the
FAA isn't likely to find out.

People don't ground themselves now, and I don't believe Sport Pilot is going to
make things any worse.

Ron Wanttaja

I think I may be the only recorded case of grounding myself for a
disqualifying condition that I know of.....

I came down with an inner ear problem in Aug. 2000 which badly affected
my balance, caused dizziness and so on. I grounded myself for about 6
mos. I actually started flying again before I should have, but I did
ground myself at first .

I let the medical expire and, due to the immense paper trail left by
doctors who didn't know what the hell they were doing with my case, the
prudent thing to do was to not try to renew it.

My current plane fits well within the LSA limitations, so I'm currently
flying under the SP rule with my private certificate and drivers license.

Otherwise, there are things about my physical condition that the FAA
would ground me for that I know conclusively do not interefere with my
flying, so I make that judgement (and not them).

And if I owned an Rv7 or something, would I fly it? well, for that kind
of cash, you bet

LS
N646F

"John Ammeter" wrote in message
...

I flew next to a guy that literally couldn't find the runway
unless his co-pilot pointed it out to him. He needed a
magnifying glass to read a restaurant menu. I didn't
realize how bad he was until it was too late and we were
already well into our long trip back east.

He kept flying even though he was obviously ready for a
white cane...

You probably know him, too... is he still flying??

Dammit, John - you promised. Zip the lip! 8-)

Rich "Which way did he go??" S.