Should you tell Tower you're departing IFR

S Narayan wrote:

I don't see a big difference in the time taken from saying "Ready for
takeoff" to saying "Holding for IFR release".

I usually say "ready to go, IFR". I also mention that I'm IFR when I
request my taxi instructions. I'd prefer an extra half-second of radio
time to the possibility of confusion.

KCDW modified their procedures a while back in a similar way. They no
longer provide the squawk code with the clearance information; it's
[almost] always "clearance on release". I asked once, and was told that
there was a problem with people taking off IFR and the tower not realizing
they were IFR. Holding back the squawk apparently blocks that.

*Why* (or "how") this occurred is a part of the back story that -
unfortunately - I was not told. I'm still curious, should anyone here
know.

- Andrew

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Either you're not following along, or you just want to argue.


I don't think you're following along. We're talking about an IFR departure.
An IFR departure isn't going to request flight following. He doesn't need
to, he's going to get radar advisories automatically.

"Scott Moore" wrote in message
...
"Waiting for IFR release". It says it all.

It gets the message across but for the hair-splitters out there it may not
be accurate.

You're actually waiting for takeoff clearance. You may or may not be
waiting for IFR release.

An IFR release is an internal ATC procedure between the tower and IFR
facility responsible for that airport.

The tower may need to call for each individual release. It may have already
called and gotten it while you were taxiing. It may have automatic
releases. It may operate one way during one part of the day and another way
during other times. It may normally operate one way all day but for reasons
of his own the departure controller shut off the flow.

A pilot really has no way to know which procedure is in effect or any real
reason to care.

When you say "N12345 is ready" the local controller will issue takeoff
clearance as soon as he's able.

If you say "N12345 is ready IFR" he'll know to look for the IFR strip (many
towers don't use strips for VFR) to ensure everything is copasetic before
issuing takeoff clearance. That includes getting a release if he needs one.

John Clonts wrote On 09/23/05 09:01,:
or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control. Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure. I had trouble getting a
word in edgewise, but when I eventually did, departure said "change
squawk to 0044". Later a different controller (but same freq I
believe) asked my if I was VFR???? I told him "Negative, N7NZ is
cleared Industry departure then as filed, currently on 270 vector". He
said, "roger, cleared direct IDU", and the rest of the flight was
uneventful (and unambiguously IFR). This was all in VMC.

Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.

Or, is there another reason I would have immediately been given a new
squawk code like that? I seem to remember that 0xxx squawks are
"local" or something like that. Yet I believe I then kept that same
0044 the entire remaining duration of the flight (through Houston
Center and then Austin Approach to my destination 44TE).

Thanks!
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

For whats its worth when I contact tower I say

Ready for IFR departure.

The response has been anything from "Hold position waiting for your
release" to line up and hold waiting for your release"

Saying something different to VFR traffic helps and theres been not
complaints.

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...

KCDW modified their procedures a while back in a similar way. They no
longer provide the squawk code with the clearance information; it's
[almost] always "clearance on release". I asked once, and was told that
there was a problem with people taking off IFR and the tower not realizing
they were IFR. Holding back the squawk apparently blocks that.


I fail to see how not issuing a beacon code blocks someone from taking off
or helps the tower remember they're departing IFR.

Dave Butler wrote:
John Clonts wrote:

snip

Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.

snip

This is an interesting thread. I'm based at a class C, RDU,
Raleigh-Durham, NC, and I've never had that happen, and I've never
informed tower that I was IFR. Never heard anyone else do it either.

Same here. Hard to believe that the tower wouldn't have some indication
of the flight plan type, but sounds like maybe not.

Matt

Dave Butler wrote:
John Clonts wrote:

snip

Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.

snip

This is an interesting thread. I'm based at a class C, RDU,
Raleigh-Durham, NC, and I've never had that happen, and I've never
informed tower that I was IFR. Never heard anyone else do it either.


It's not necessary at a class C or B tower, those facilities are the IFR
facility for releasing departures. It is a nice thing to do at class d
towers as they have to get a release from the IFR facility.

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 9/23/2005 11:34, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"John Clonts" wrote in message
ups.com...


or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control.


How much time elapsed between getting your clearance and taxiing for
departure?



Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure.


Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?


They do when you've requested flight following.

ELM routinely hands off VFR departures to departure control. You have
to specifically request not to have radar services if you don't want the
hand-off.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

ELM routinely hands off VFR departures to departure control. You have to
specifically request not to have radar services if you don't want the
hand-off.


ELM has a TRSA. As in all TRSAs, departing aircraft are assumed to want
TRSA services unless the pilot states otherwise.

Andrew Gideon wrote:



I usually say "ready to go, IFR". I also mention that I'm IFR when I
request my taxi instructions. I'd prefer an extra half-second of radio
time to the possibility of confusion.

KCDW modified their procedures a while back in a similar way. They no
longer provide the squawk code with the clearance information; it's
[almost] always "clearance on release". I asked once, and was told that
there was a problem with people taking off IFR and the tower not realizing
they were IFR. Holding back the squawk apparently blocks that.

It doesn't, it helps the tower hide the fact they released an IFR
without a release, which is an operational error. When I worked at GFK
the vast majority of our IFR traffic was from UND and they almost always
used the small parallel runway, mixed in with all the VFR's. To prevent
an inadvertant release of an UND IFR aircraft we would not issue your
clearance until you were done with your runup. It worked for us because
every clearance was as filed.



*Why* (or "how") this occurred is a part of the back story that -
unfortunately - I was not told. I'm still curious, should anyone here
know.

They had a deal, simple as that, just like one of our guys.