Downdraft at 12,000 feet

James Robinson schrieb:

Can somebody explain what he did right/wrong?

His mistake was to go there in the first place.

I've been taught an iron rule: Never ever fly on top of a closed cloud
layer over mountains in a light single. Because if you hit downdraft
over mountains, you will *not* be able to hold altitude. With a closed
layer this means that you will find yourself between mountains in the
soup. (Which means that most probably you won't be able to tell anybody
about it afterwards).

A closed layer over mountains is a definitve no-go situation for a light
single, unless you like to gamble.

Stefan

gpsman writes:

Your training and experience led you to that conclusion?

No, the lack of information in the article led me to that conclusion.

The ignorant, untrained and inexperienced are most often merely
masturbating their keyboard when they post: I dunno.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Anyway, if you have more information on the incident, please post it.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

What did he do wrong? He went flying on a day forecast for heavy to severe
Santa Anna winds and tried to get through the pass from the Desert to the
Valley and then he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

He was IFR in clouds and lost control, the resulting death spiral.

Glad he's ok..

BT


"James Robinson" wrote in message
. ..
Pilot reported heavy downdraft over Lancaster, CA, resulting in crash.

http://www.orovillemr.com/news/chico/ci_4917367

Can somebody explain what he did right/wrong?

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
gpsman writes:

Your training and experience led you to that conclusion?

No, the lack of information in the article led me to that conclusion.


Looking at a map makes it reasonably clear. He was downwind from and not
much higher than a mountain range.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Not clear that 'downdraft' and 'death spiral' are necessarily related. We
have all been in downdrafts - some worse than others. Downdrafts don't cause
spirals. Loss of spatial awareness causes a death spiral.

As others have said it would be nice to know what the pilot actually did,
but what he SHOULD have done was fly the airplane, wings level, and fly OUT
of the downdraft. Either by reversing direction or flying 0 or 180 degrees
off the wind dirrection. I think this pilot is alive due to luck, not due to
remembering his training
"James Robinson" wrote in message
. ..
Pilot reported heavy downdraft over Lancaster, CA, resulting in crash.

http://www.orovillemr.com/news/chico/ci_4917367

Can somebody explain what he did right/wrong?

"James Robinson" wrote in message
. ..
Pilot reported heavy downdraft over Lancaster, CA, resulting in crash.

http://www.orovillemr.com/news/chico/ci_4917367

Can somebody explain what he did right/wrong?

Wrong? Probably had never taken a mountain flying course. I'll bet there
were high winds involved. The strong downdraft was predictable, and
possibly avoidable.
--
Jim in NC

pgbnh wrote:
Not clear that 'downdraft' and 'death spiral' are necessarily related. We
have all been in downdrafts - some worse than others. Downdrafts don't cause
spirals. Loss of spatial awareness causes a death spiral.

The news article (for what that's worth) quotes the pilot as sayng the
downdraft pulled him into the cloud. Which would produce spatial
disorientation and, probably, a spiral dive. So maybe they are
connected.

As others have said it would be nice to know what the pilot actually did,
but what he SHOULD have done was fly the airplane, wings level, and fly OUT
of the downdraft. Either by reversing direction or flying 0 or 180 degrees
off the wind dirrection. I think this pilot is alive due to luck, not due to
remembering his training.

A friend of mine and fellow glider pilot had the reverse happen to him.
He got caught in an updraft so strong that he couldn't fly out of it,
got pulled into the cloud, tried to turn to get out, couldn't, lost
orientation, went into spiral dive, but remembered an article he had
read a long time ago, and used it to get out in one piece (him and the
plane!).

I can't say that the method he used was the same as what this guy
tried, but it worked for my friend -- better than for this pilot since
he and the plane got out of the cloud in one piece. So here is what he
did: Neutralize stick (or yoke) in pitch and apply pressure to one
side. If the G force decreases, you guessed right. If G increases, try
the other side.

As soon as the G forces feel more normal, pull back to avoid exceeding
Vne. Only problem was, without a gyro, he went 80 degrees to the
vertical, stopped flying, fell backward, and then the forward CG got
him flying again. So he went into another spiral dive, but used the
same method to recover a second time and this time came out of the
cloud.

He had deployed his spoilers, gear, etc. in an attempt to come out the
bottom. He knows a lot about what happened because he was carrying a
flight recorder which gliders use to prove how far, high, etc. they
flew. It records GPS lat/long and barometric altitude about once every
twelve seconds.

So that's a maneuver that worked for one, excellent pilot. He's been
flying since he's 14 and is one of the best. His main conclusion
however is that he screwed up by being in a place and mindset where he
could get sucked into the cloud in the first place -- too close to
cloud base, too much in a mindset of looking for that one great thermal
to get him home after a so-so day of soaring.

Hope this helps answer the question several others also asked.

Martin

Geoff wrote :

Looking at a map makes it reasonably clear. He was downwind from and
not
much higher than a mountain range.

Which is exactly where you'd expect to find a rotor from the wave
spilling over the mountain. Flying into a rotor is more than just your
average downdraft. If it's strong, you can expect serious pitch and
bank excursions. Simply put, the plane can easily be out of control.
Combine that with IMC and loss of control would probably not be far
behind.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)


--
JGalban
Posted at www.flight.org

"James Robinson" wrote in message
. ..
Pilot reported heavy downdraft over Lancaster, CA, resulting in crash.

http://www.orovillemr.com/news/chico/ci_4917367

Can somebody explain what he did right/wrong?

I used to own a 35 model Bonanza and it was unstable in roll and would
easily enter a "death spiral". Perhaps the 36 model is the same.

Danny Deger

Danny Deger wrote:


I used to own a 35 model Bonanza and it was unstable in roll and would
easily enter a "death spiral".


No certificated GA plane is unstable in roll.