TO THE GROUP.... Wherever you are

"Jim" jaahrens NOSPAM at yahoo dot com wrote in message
...

"Maple1" wrote in message
news:rwE6j.5694$jq2.3014@pd7urf1no...
That is because most of us have quit posting here and have moved on to
better places with fewer assholes.

I don't quite understand why you are flaming me for asking a simple
question
out of curiosity. I asked why it was stated that the air raid on Pearl
was
not particularly important to aviation.

As you say . . . if "most of us have quit posting here and have moved on
to
better places with fewer assholes" . . . I see you're still around!


Jim.

I'm not sure if all types of browsers show it or not, but Maple's post while
being posted after your reply, was posted in direct answer to Luke's
message. A lot of providers do not always seem to pick up and post other
answers straight away, so it is quite likely that Maple may not have seen
your answer.

It is a shame that Maple does not post a lot more here still as he used to
have some great shots and used to contribute a lot.

As to your question, I thought the same thing too. I think that the events
of that day probably had a far greater effect on the future direction of
military aviation than anyone at the time could have imagined.

As to remembering the day, well I normally post my own photos here from time
to time, so I am guilty of not posting some, but I certainly remembered the
day.

Here's a pic of one of the Types operated by the RAAF on their first
operations against the Japanese.

It was on the 8th of December, but only because of the International Date
Line. In reality the attack on the Japanese invasion fleet off Malaya was
over an hour before the attack on Pearl Harbour.


--
Darryl Gibbs
Aircraft of Australia Aviation Photography. www.aircraftofaustralia.com
Vintage and Warbirds. http://www.vintageandwarbirds.com
http://www.cnapg.org Information on all aspects of aviation, particularly
vintage and warbirds. Home of the CNAPG aircraft recognition quiz's, and
the Vintage and Warbird mailing list.

--
Darryl Gibbs
Aircraft of Australia Aviation Photography. www.aircraftofaustralia.com
Vintage and Warbirds. http://www.vintageandwarbirds.com
http://www.cnapg.org Information on all aspects of aviation, particularly
vintage and warbirds. Home of the CNAPG aircraft recognition quiz's, and
the Vintage and Warbird mailing list.

--
Darryl Gibbs
Aircraft of Australia Aviation Photography. www.aircraftofaustralia.com
Vintage and Warbirds. http://www.vintageandwarbirds.com
http://www.cnapg.org Information on all aspects of aviation, particularly
vintage and warbirds. Home of the CNAPG aircraft recognition quiz's, and
the Vintage and Warbird mailing list.

"Jim" jaahrens NOSPAM at yahoo dot com wrote in message
...

"Luke" wrote in message
...

"SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message
...
IS IT JUST ME...

Am I the only one that remembered that yesterday was a day that was
supposed to have a special significance.

A day that would live in infimy.


There were many posts in a.b.p.military. I'm sure there were many
more in the political groups, but I don't go there.

The attack on Pearl harbor, while significant in reagards to History,
politics, world events and the military, was not a particularly important
day to the world of aviation.


Luke



Hmmmm! Wasn't the entire raid on Pearl carried out by aviation? Why do
you say that it wasn't particularly important to the world of aviation?


Was it the first of any sort of flight? The longest? Were any new
technological barriers broken, aces crowned, meritorious valor on the part
of any pilot? Were any records broken, or new trends in aviation started?
The answer to all these questions is 'no'.

Suggesting that Pearl harbor day might be a special day for aviation
because "the entire raid on Pearl (was) carried out by aviation" is like
suggesting that the assasination of JFK is a special day for gun
enthusiasts....


Luke

SHIVER ME TIMBERS wrote:
That is because most of us have quit posting here and have moved on to H
better places with fewer assholes.ecSo where is Shangri La these days.




Shangri-La is wherever you visit least.

"Luke" wrote in message
...

"Jim" jaahrens NOSPAM at yahoo dot com wrote in message
...

"Luke" wrote in message
...

"SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message
...
IS IT JUST ME...

Am I the only one that remembered that yesterday was a day that was
supposed to have a special significance.

A day that would live in infimy.


There were many posts in a.b.p.military. I'm sure there were many
more in the political groups, but I don't go there.

The attack on Pearl harbor, while significant in reagards to History,
politics, world events and the military, was not a particularly
important day to the world of aviation.


Luke



Hmmmm! Wasn't the entire raid on Pearl carried out by aviation? Why do
you say that it wasn't particularly important to the world of aviation?


Was it the first of any sort of flight? The longest? Were any new
technological barriers broken, aces crowned, meritorious valor on the part
of any pilot? Were any records broken, or new trends in aviation started?
The answer to all these questions is 'no'.

It was the first time carrier based aircraft made a significant and
successful attack on a complete naval (and air) fleet (albeit in harbour).
It marked the beginning of the end for the battleship, in favour of the
carrier. I'd day that was a significant "first".


Suggesting that Pearl harbor day might be a special day for aviation
because "the entire raid on Pearl (was) carried out by aviation" is like
suggesting that the assasination of JFK is a special day for gun
enthusiasts....

Except that JFK was not the first (and certainly not the last) political
figure to die from a bullit. Pearl was significant, because next to the
"firsts" above, it lead directly to other significant "firsts", culminating
in the first (and so far only) two air drops of A-bombs.

Ron
--
Non urinat in ventum

It was the first time carrier based aircraft made a significant and
successful attack on a complete naval (and air) fleet (albeit in harbour).
It marked the beginning of the end for the battleship, in favour of the
carrier. I'd day that was a significant "first".



Except the British attack at Taranto on November 1940

"Ron" wrote in message
...
Was it the first of any sort of flight? The longest? Were any new
technological barriers broken, aces crowned, meritorious valor on the
part of any pilot? Were any records broken, or new trends in aviation
started? The answer to all these questions is 'no'.

It was the first time carrier based aircraft made a significant and
successful attack on a complete naval (and air) fleet (albeit in harbour).
It marked the beginning of the end for the battleship, in favour of the
carrier. I'd day that was a significant "first".

Nope. Not the first. From wiki (so I don't have to type so much) :
"The naval Battle of Taranto took place on the night of 11 November - 12
November 1940 during World War II. The Royal Navy launched the first
all-aircraft naval attack in history, flying a small number of aircraft from
an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean Sea and attacking the Italian fleet
at harbour in Taranto. The effect of the British aircraft on the Italian
warships led pundits around the world to predict the end of the "big gun"
ship and the rise of naval air-power.
The Italian fleet had suffered heavily, and the next day Regia Marina
transferred its undamaged ships from Taranto to naval bases farther north to
protect them from similar attacks. Repairs to Littorio took about four
months and to Caio Duilio six, but Conte di Cavour required extensive
salvage work and its repairs were incomplete when Italy left the war in
1943. The Italian battleship fleet lost half its strength in one night. The
"fleet-in-being" diminished in importance and the Royal Navy increased its
control of the Mediterranean."


I would argue that WWII as a whole was the turning point from battle
ship warfare to air carrier warfare, not just the attack at Pearl harbor.
How you define "significant and successful attack" is a matter for you alone
to place in your own personal set of benchmarks. The Japanese may have
stepped things up a notch, or had some percieved increase of success in
their actions on 12-7-41, but it wasn't because of any great achievement in
aviation. Sadly, their success was due mostly to the fact that the US
forces were asleep at the wheel, confident that the Japanese wouldn't
attack. If anything, Pearl Harbor day is a red letter day in American
screw-ups in underestimating the enemy.


Luke

"Ron Snipes" wrote in message
.. .
Here you go Shiver! I'm a Helicopter Guy too.
Ron Snipes
New Bern, NC

Be careful admitting you're a helicopter guy, people look at you funny when
you do.

Rob
(SH-2F's, SH-3H's, SH-60F, SH-60B)

"Darryl Gibbs" wrote

It is interesting (to me, at least) that your picture seems to show so much
washout (twist in the wing at the tip so it has less angle of attack, thus
lessening the severity of stalls) or it appears to show a bunch of washout.

I included the definition not for you, but for newbies that may not be aware
of that aerodynamic design factor.

Nice picture, by the way.
--
Jim in NC