Russia & India to send joint manned mission to Moon

"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...


Sure. I am refering to dust clouds clearly visible in NASA official
Apollo 16 video under the title "Astronaut drives Lunar Rover"
which can be found at:


There are no dust clouds in this video.

The dust is thrown off the rear wheel and immediately falls
back to the ground with no plume of dust hanging suspended
as happens when you drive in desert areas on earth.

Ok Keith your visibility clearly does not allow you to see this
air effects in Moon, as well as to all NASA defenders.


The limit in this case is that of the video clip involved
and I have seen this before at a higher definition.

As for me "clouds" of very fine particles of dust hanging
suspended in the air and as well as "clouds" of more heavy
particles concetrated in areas where they lost horizontal
speed (due to air resitence) and fall down almost vertical,

I see no clouds of dust suspended. On a surface like that
on any of the sand/dust deserts I have travelled you can see the
dust track for miles behind a vehicle.

are all pretty visible to me. Let's see maybe others have
a bit better visibility, than you have.


For a good picture of how dust behaves on earth
see

http://www.goredsea.com/media/images/large/DSC07745.JPG
http://www.goredsea.com/media/images/large/DSC07739.JPG

Keith

Keith Willshaw wrote:
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message

...

"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
e.com...


Sure. I am refering to dust clouds clearly visible in NASA official
Apollo 16 video under the title "Astronaut drives Lunar Rover"
which can be found at:


There are no dust clouds in this video.

The dust is thrown off the rear wheel and immediately falls
back to the ground with no plume of dust hanging suspended
as happens when you drive in desert areas on earth.

Ok Keith your visibility clearly does not allow you to see this
air effects in Moon, as well as to all NASA defenders.



The limit in this case is that of the video clip involved
and I have seen this before at a higher definition.


As for me "clouds" of very fine particles of dust hanging
suspended in the air and as well as "clouds" of more heavy
particles concetrated in areas where they lost horizontal
speed (due to air resitence) and fall down almost vertical,


I see no clouds of dust suspended. On a surface like that
on any of the sand/dust deserts I have travelled you can see the
dust track for miles behind a vehicle.


are all pretty visible to me. Let's see maybe others have
a bit better visibility, than you have.


Sorry Michael, I have to agree with Keith. The clip you refer to, which
I have also seen in higher resolution, to me just shows clouds of moon
dust being thrown up and then falling straight back down again, as you
would expect it to in a vacuum.

If you have ever driven in dusty conditions on earth as I have you will
be aware of how long the dust hangs in the air.

John

Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Brett" wrote in message
...

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:.


Only 12 launch failures in 300+/- attempts since the mid 1960's?




2% of 300 is 6, Russian rockets have a generally excellent record.

Which was my point. By trying to do too much (ie reusable components)
and then not funding it properly, the USA has achieved less than they
ought to have. By using conservative technology, the Russians have
achieved more reliability. Apart, as I agreed already, from the N1.

The notable exception was the N1 rocket designed for the
Soviet moon program.

Hideously over-complex design. It just *looks* wrong. Maybe the Russians
didn't get enough Nazi rocket scientists!

John

Michael Petukhov wrote:

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...

"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
.com...


Sure. I am refering to dust clouds clearly visible in NASA official
Apollo 16 video under the title "Astronaut drives Lunar Rover"
which can be found at:


There are no dust clouds in this video.

The dust is thrown off the rear wheel and immediately falls
back to the ground with no plume of dust hanging suspended
as happens when you drive in desert areas on earth.


Ok Keith your visibility clearly does not allow you to see this
air effects in Moon, as well as to all NASA defenders.

As for me "clouds" of very fine particles of dust hanging
suspended in the air and as well as "clouds" of more heavy
particles concetrated in areas where they lost horizontal
speed (due to air resitence) and fall down almost vertical,
are all pretty visible to me. Let's see maybe others have
a bit better visibility, than you have.

Michael

Keith
Keith may have visibility and so do you
But you need to have the organ connected to your vision
hardware replaced or refurbished.

Michael Petukhov wrote:
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...

Sure. I am refering to dust clouds clearly visible in NASA official
Apollo 16 video under the title "Astronaut drives Lunar Rover"
which can be found at:


There are no dust clouds in this video.

The dust is thrown off the rear wheel and immediately falls
back to the ground with no plume of dust hanging suspended
as happens when you drive in desert areas on earth.


Ok Keith your visibility clearly does not allow you to see this
air effects in Moon, as well as to all NASA defenders.

As for me "clouds" of very fine particles of dust hanging
suspended in the air and as well as "clouds" of more heavy
particles concetrated in areas where they lost horizontal
speed (due to air resitence) and fall down almost vertical,
are all pretty visible to me. Let's see maybe others have
a bit better visibility, than you have.

Michael

Keith


In which direction to you expect the dust to be thrown? While not
quite absolutely vertical, there is very little horizontal
component to the velocity of dust lifted off the ground
by tires unless they are slipping. On earth, most of the
horizontal velocity of dust is provided by the disturbed
*air* around the moving vehicle. Therefore, your
description of what you believe to be the results of
air resistance are in fact more evidence of its
absence. If there was enough air pressure to change
the direction of the dust, it would billow out, as
you see behind (for instance) a vehicle on a dirt
road.

Mike

Mike

"No Spam!" wrote in message ...
John -

You're missing the point.

The problem with Michael and all the other crypto-conspiracists is
nothing they present is subject to being falsifiable; they don't use the
rules of scientific evidence and logic.

They are right. Everyone else is wrong. If you try and demonstrate they
are wrong by bringing up "falsifiable", they will either ignore your
facts and evidence, claim it's not true, or claim you're part of the
cover-up.

They're not working on a logical level, and nothing you can ever so or
do will convince them otherwise.

If you want proof, just ask Michael (or any other person of his type)
exactly what evidence, if presented, they would accept as proof they
were wrong. See what response you get. And even if on the off chance
they do provide such a list, and you demonstrate anything on the list to
them, they will then recant and find a reason to not accept that, either.

Just view it as the Internet equivalent of tilting at windmills.

A Reformed Tilter

No, I understand and agree completely. Nevertheless, I think the
argument must occasionally be fought. Not to convince the hoaxer, but
to expose lurkers to the counter arguments. I know there are many
hoax debunk web sites which can serve this purpose; however, in my
experience, they tend to argue directly against the "evidence"
provided by the hoax proponents. My observation is that the indirect
evidence (political environment, technical capability, etc.) did not
permit an hoax to be performed. So, every once in a while I'll
address one of these posters to see if they have anything new,
identify counter arguments for the lurkers and to use the opportunity
to sharpen my admittedly scholarship.

(Michael Petukhov) wrote in message . com...
(John Beadles) wrote in message . com...


It is also easy to show that the responses between the flight crew and
ground control did not show the time delay that would be present if
there was a voice relay from the ground to the moon and back.

Easy? Show please. It is easy to show the opposite.
it did, using of course the scheme presented.

If the
signal were the result of a recording from a lunar bound lander, the
ground controllers would have had to have previously prepared scripts,
therefor all the ground controllers would have had to be in on it.

Who said it was "recording from a lunar bound lander". Are you prefer
to dispute with your own false arguments, as many NASA defenders like
so much? Frankly I think than many so called moon hoax sites
in internet full of false arguments are sponsored by NASA. It is easy
to fight with their own false claims and sink the grains of true
in the seas of false claims and contra claims.

As for communications I think it was life between studio and mainly
unaware personnel in Huston control center but the signal went via
lunar trasmitters (including one installed in Apollo return module).
That's scheme correctly reproduce all variable delay times, doppler
shifts, indepedent tracking and so on and so far.

Michael

Michael,

I'll answer this, but it'll take me a day or so because the answer is
going to be extensive. I attempted to send out a msg on this topic,
but I think I accidentally hit the send button before I was finished.

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...


Sure. I am refering to dust clouds clearly visible in NASA official
Apollo 16 video under the title "Astronaut drives Lunar Rover"
which can be found at:


There are no dust clouds in this video.

The dust is thrown off the rear wheel and immediately falls
back to the ground with no plume of dust hanging suspended
as happens when you drive in desert areas on earth.

Keith


also, if you pay particular attention to the part where he slams on the
brakes at the end, you will notice the dust falls forward across the wheel
well and onto the ground immediately.

"captain!" wrote in message
news:cTbub.416666$pl3.294210@pd7tw3no...

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...


Sure. I am refering to dust clouds clearly visible in NASA official
Apollo 16 video under the title "Astronaut drives Lunar Rover"
which can be found at:


There are no dust clouds in this video.

The dust is thrown off the rear wheel and immediately falls
back to the ground with no plume of dust hanging suspended
as happens when you drive in desert areas on earth.

Keith


also, if you pay particular attention to the part where he slams on the
brakes at the end, you will notice the dust falls forward across the wheel
well and onto the ground immediately.



Capn you got sucked into one of Petukov's psychopathys. I thought this was
about Russia and India...which one holds the lightbulb and which one turns
the ladder?!

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...


Sure. I am refering to dust clouds clearly visible in NASA official
Apollo 16 video under the title "Astronaut drives Lunar Rover"
which can be found at:


There are no dust clouds in this video.

The dust is thrown off the rear wheel and immediately falls
back to the ground with no plume of dust hanging suspended
as happens when you drive in desert areas on earth.

Ok Keith your visibility clearly does not allow you to see this
air effects in Moon, as well as to all NASA defenders.


The limit in this case is that of the video clip involved
and I have seen this before at a higher definition.

So do I. I have bought high definition video tape in when
visiting US.


As for me "clouds" of very fine particles of dust hanging
suspended in the air and as well as "clouds" of more heavy
particles concetrated in areas where they lost horizontal
speed (due to air resitence) and fall down almost vertical,

I see no clouds of dust suspended. On a surface like that
on any of the sand/dust deserts I have travelled you can see the
dust track for miles behind a vehicle.

Never mind. If you do not perhaps indeed you cannot.

BTW I have found and read the Mishin book "Why we did not
went to the Moon", 1990. Not a bad title...

Funny reading to say mild. Imagine lots of talks about advatage
of H1 design compare to Saturn V and not a word about LM design
and testing, not a word about radiation and protection against
it as it never existed. Of course he is true beliver that NASA did
went to the moon.

Among interesting things he said that by end of 1970 project
UR500K(proton)/L1 (known as Zonds 4-8 for public) was successfuly
4 times tested and were 100% ready for a manned mission
(if you do not know it was about the circling Moon and return),
but "high authorities" closed the program out of hands without any
explantions. By the same decision his OKB1 was given an order to
start urgent program of a space station for LEO. Moreover he,
the cheaf designer and the official Korolev successor said that
"the goverment decision was not clear for me then and it
is not clear for me now".

That's about all useful info on "Why we did not went to the Moon"
we can extract from this otherwise nice booklet. I have got
100% impression from his book he never even heard these words,
"the space radiation hazard". Not sure about astranauts but
russian cosmonauts seem were completely immuned of this.

Michael


are all pretty visible to me. Let's see maybe others have
a bit better visibility, than you have.


For a good picture of how dust behaves on earth
see

http://www.goredsea.com/media/images/large/DSC07745.JPG
http://www.goredsea.com/media/images/large/DSC07739.JPG

Keith