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ZZZ Name Change for Sun-N-Fun?



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 22nd 08, 09:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Frank Stutzman[_2_]
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Posts: 74
Default ZZZ Rocket Racer LeagueZZZ

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:

But these aren't gliders. Of course neither is the space shuttle. BUT.


But if he expects the engine to quit mid-flight before he even gets in
the plane, can it still be considered an emergency?

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID

  #22  
Old April 22nd 08, 10:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Big John
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Posts: 310
Default ZZZ Rocket Racer LeagueZZZ

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:56:59 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Apr 22, 5:59*am, ChuckSlusarczyk
wrote:
In article , Ron Wanttaja says...



On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:10:07 -0700, John Ousterhout
wrote:


Better define "Race," Filbert...two planes chasing each other, like the fake
Reno races at Oshkosh? *Or an actual competition where the winners aren't
pre-programmed?


According to Wikipedia, the race course is at 1,500 feet, following a
computer-generated course. *Funny thing is, five minutes worth of clicking on
the RRL site didn't lead to a description that even gave THAT much information.
Until you find out what RRL's definition of a "race" is, I wouldn't place any
bets.


Hmmm perception and reality at work here? The zoom touch is alive and well
LOL!!!



Did find this picture on the RRL site, which is a real howler:


http://www.rocketracingleague.com/ga...s/images/runwa...


Note how the runway is just two wingspans wide, and the grandstands are RIGHT at
the runway edge. *We're finally seeing the results of Campbell's input. :-)


That certainly isn't FAA's idea of a "crowd line" try having an airshow with the
crowd line so close to the action...NOT!! more perception and reality problems.



Each race (again, according to Wikipedia) is supposed to last 90 minutes, with
the planes carrying four minutes of fuel. *World record for a rocket pit stop is
something like three hours. *Even if they get that down to 15 minutes (including
the time to tow the plane to the fuel station and back to the runway), that's
STILL a lot of gliding time.


I can hear the race announcer now ." Ladies and gentleman the race is on and see
that imaginary race course in the sky ? See how many of you can tell who's
winning the race OOOPPPS time for a pit stop while the action switches to the
pits for refueling.
While they're purging the tanks and doing a pre cool now's the time to go for a
dinner and visit of our sales mall.There you can enjoy a sit down meal and
dancing while the kids buy overpriced rocket models and play *in the game room.

After dinner and dancing return to your seats for the exciting conclusion of the
ROCKET *RACING's First heat.Thrills ,chills and excitement await us as the
Racers try to start their engines and OOOPPS we had a flame out ...Time to visit
out inhouse theater and watch an exciting movie staring the hero of stage screen
and Tv as he stars in the exciting movie the "Amazing Adventures of Capt Zoom
hero of the Universe".

While the refueling continues the Burbank RC Flyers will do a demonstration of
pylon racing with REAL model pylon racers.Now that's racing *folks...While we're
waiting for the Pylon Racers to show up .Take a visit to our .....

I can hardly wait....

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret


That is just about my opinion of this pipe dream from the day I first
heard about it. It is running on what? 2 years? 3 years? now and no
progress that I have heard about, no planes flying that have been
reported in the news...

Bottom line? Don't hold your breath folks.

Harry K

**************************************

Does anyone think Moller has some mony in this?

Big John
  #23  
Old April 23rd 08, 02:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Ron Wanttaja
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Posts: 756
Default ZZZ Rocket Racer LeagueZZZ

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:21:50 +0000 (UTC), Frank Stutzman
wrote:

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
Well, let's see:


OK, Ron, I'll agree with all your points except for the very first one:


1. Each race ends with an emergency (e.g., an aircraft without of fuel).


By this definition there are a powerful lot of soaring events/races
that are nothing but emergencies.


Oh, I'll grant you it's not technically an emergency since it's the intent to
land dry. But then, these aren't sailplanes. "Landing-out" in a Schempp-Hirth
is likely to be a LOT more survivable than if a RRL racer can't make the runway.
The Space Shuttle deadsticks, too, but they've got very pricey simulators and
the Gulfstream to practice with. Can't do a lot of touch-and-goes with four
minutes of fuel....

The airplanes and pilots are all festooned with cameras, transmitting data to
the ground in real-time. Everyone will have a front-row seat to the accidents.

You can replace #1, if you like, with: "If the FIRST racer to land crashes on
the runway, all the following ones are going to be in a world of hurt...." I
expect the FAA will demand contingency plans in place (alternate runways,
landing on taxiways, etc.) but odds are there'll be somebody badly positioned if
the primary runway goes down. Will the fire trucks even be allowed to respond
before all the racers have landed?

Ron Wanttaja
  #24  
Old April 23rd 08, 03:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Harry K
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Posts: 153
Default ZZZ Rocket Racer LeagueZZZ

On Apr 22, 12:30*pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
BobR wrote:

Harry K wrote:


Bottom line? *Don't hold your breath folks.


Harry K


Could we ask ZOOM to hold his breath while we wait? *BFG


The problem is they seem to have bought a perfectly good kit company.

http://kitplanesmag.blogspot.com/200...league-announc...

Rocket Racing League Announces Schedule, Velocity Aircraft Sold

Positioning itself as a "new entertainment sports league that combines
the exhilaration of racing with the power of rocket engines," the Rocket
Racing League announced that it will stage its first exhibition race at
Oshkosh this year. The vehicles will be liquid-oxygen-fueled rockets in
modified Velocity airframes. Three more exhibition races will be held at
Reno (September 10-14), at the X-Prize Cup (Las Cruces, NM, date TBA),
and at Aviation Nation, Nellis Air Force Base (November 8-9).

No doubt to ensure an adequate supply of airframes, RRL's subsidiary,
Rocket Racing Composite Corporation, has purchased Velocity Aircraft. It
is expected that Velocity will continue selling and servicing the
Velocity as an Experimental/Amateur-Built aircraft.

According to RRL, "Under the terms of the agreement, Velocity Aircraft
will become a wholly owned division of Rocket Racing Composite Corp. and
will produce an airframe that will be consistent for all competing
Rocket Racers. Through a rigorous research and development, all
Velocity-constructed Rocket Racers will be equipped with the
safest-possible airframe for any kind of aircraft. The cockpit seats for
all Rocket Racers will be reinforced to withstand impacts up to 20G load
and other safety measures will be added using a methodology similar to
that of F-1 and Indy Car to better protect pilots and passengers alike."

According to the press release, "Scott Baker, president of Velocity,
Inc. offered his enthusiastic remarks that, 'Velocity is truly excited
to be a part of Rocket Racing. Many of the technology advances that are
planned for the Rocket Racer models transcend and offer performance and
comfort benefits to Velocity owners who use their aircraft for personal
and business travel.' "

No word on the availability of the rocket engine for homebuilders.


I notice an awful lot of "wills" in there and no "do"s. Reads just
like a press release for vapor ware. It only says they will be doing
'lots of things' and not one "we have done" in relation to acturally
_building_ a plane. If all they have done is what is quoted above,
they aren't even gonna come close to having flyable airframes by
Oshkosh.

Harry K
  #25  
Old April 23rd 08, 03:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
cavelamb himself[_4_]
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Posts: 474
Default ZZZ Rocket Racer LeagueZZZ

Harry K wrote:
On Apr 22, 12:30 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:

BobR wrote:


Harry K wrote:


Bottom line? Don't hold your breath folks.


Harry K


Could we ask ZOOM to hold his breath while we wait? BFG


The problem is they seem to have bought a perfectly good kit company.

http://kitplanesmag.blogspot.com/200...league-announc...

Rocket Racing League Announces Schedule, Velocity Aircraft Sold

Positioning itself as a "new entertainment sports league that combines
the exhilaration of racing with the power of rocket engines," the Rocket
Racing League announced that it will stage its first exhibition race at
Oshkosh this year. The vehicles will be liquid-oxygen-fueled rockets in
modified Velocity airframes. Three more exhibition races will be held at
Reno (September 10-14), at the X-Prize Cup (Las Cruces, NM, date TBA),
and at Aviation Nation, Nellis Air Force Base (November 8-9).

No doubt to ensure an adequate supply of airframes, RRL's subsidiary,
Rocket Racing Composite Corporation, has purchased Velocity Aircraft. It
is expected that Velocity will continue selling and servicing the
Velocity as an Experimental/Amateur-Built aircraft.

According to RRL, "Under the terms of the agreement, Velocity Aircraft
will become a wholly owned division of Rocket Racing Composite Corp. and
will produce an airframe that will be consistent for all competing
Rocket Racers. Through a rigorous research and development, all
Velocity-constructed Rocket Racers will be equipped with the
safest-possible airframe for any kind of aircraft. The cockpit seats for
all Rocket Racers will be reinforced to withstand impacts up to 20G load
and other safety measures will be added using a methodology similar to
that of F-1 and Indy Car to better protect pilots and passengers alike."

According to the press release, "Scott Baker, president of Velocity,
Inc. offered his enthusiastic remarks that, 'Velocity is truly excited
to be a part of Rocket Racing. Many of the technology advances that are
planned for the Rocket Racer models transcend and offer performance and
comfort benefits to Velocity owners who use their aircraft for personal
and business travel.' "

No word on the availability of the rocket engine for homebuilders.



I notice an awful lot of "wills" in there and no "do"s. Reads just
like a press release for vapor ware. It only says they will be doing
'lots of things' and not one "we have done" in relation to acturally
_building_ a plane. If all they have done is what is quoted above,
they aren't even gonna come close to having flyable airframes by
Oshkosh.

Harry K



I read the book.

They actually did (a demo?) race - once.

Richard
--
(remove the X to email)

Now just why the HELL do I have to press 1 for English?
John Wayne
  #26  
Old April 23rd 08, 04:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Darrel Toepfer
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Posts: 289
Default ZZZ Rocket Racer LeagueZZZ

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:

Rocket Racing League Announces Schedule, Velocity Aircraft Sold


And yet all the posters I've seen lately, still reflect the use of some
form of EZ, Long-Eze, etc...

ie. It looks quite a bit different than a Velocity...
  #27  
Old April 23rd 08, 05:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Ron Wanttaja
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Posts: 756
Default ZZZ Rocket Racer LeagueZZZ

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:30:30 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:

The problem is they seem to have bought a perfectly good kit company.

http://kitplanesmag.blogspot.com/200...-schedule.html

Rocket Racing League Announces Schedule, Velocity Aircraft Sold

[....]

No doubt to ensure an adequate supply of airframes, RRL's subsidiary,
Rocket Racing Composite Corporation, has purchased Velocity Aircraft. It
is expected that Velocity will continue selling and servicing the
Velocity as an Experimental/Amateur-Built aircraft.


One has to wonder why having an "adequate supply of airframes" was in doubt.
Assuming RRL was already paying for all the racer development costs, it seems
strange that they felt they had to buy the company itself.

The only obvious answer is that Velocity had be ready to go out of business, and
the only way RRL could protect its source of airframes was to buy the company.

I took a look at my set of Aircraft Registration databases. Here's the change
in the number of Velocities registered per year since 2001:

Year Net Increase
---- --
2001 29
2002 18
2003 22
2004 11
2005 9
2006 10
2007 7

Note that this is the *net* increase in the number of aircraft registered as
Velocities...and that in most cases, this reflected a kit that had probably been
purchased three or more years earlier. (Note that the actual number of completed
aircraft per year is generally higher...for instance, I show 12 Velocities with
new airworthiness certificates in 2007).

Obviously, Velocity sales had peaked in the late '90s. Not too farfetched to
think that the owners were considering shutting the line down. Contrast that to
the RV juggernaut:

Year Net Increase
---- --
2001 308
2002 328
2003 373
2004 424
2005 360
2006 429
2007 445

Ron Wanttaja
  #28  
Old April 23rd 08, 05:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Darrel Toepfer
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Posts: 289
Default ZZZ Rocket Racer LeagueZZZ

Ron Wanttaja wrote:

Obviously, Velocity sales had peaked in the late '90s. Not too
farfetched to think that the owners were considering shutting the line
down.


They were doing a factory "Quick Build" option, but it wasn't kneaux "2
Weeks 2 Taxi" thingie either...

I like the gull wing doors so much better than the old lift the roof, by
climbing in over the backend method they originally had...
  #29  
Old April 23rd 08, 07:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
John Ousterhout[_2_]
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Posts: 36
Default ZZZ Rocket Racer LeagueZZZ

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:10:07 -0700, John Ousterhout
wrote:


But I'll issue a public apology to Jim Campbell if he ever acts as PIC
in a Rocket Race.



Better define "Race," Filbert...two planes chasing each other, like the fake
Reno races at Oshkosh? Or an actual competition where the winners aren't
pre-programmed?

According to Wikipedia, the race course is at 1,500 feet, following a
computer-generated course. Funny thing is, five minutes worth of clicking on
the RRL site didn't lead to a description that even gave THAT much information.
Until you find out what RRL's definition of a "race" is, I wouldn't place any
bets.



I guess I just assumed that everyone would agree with me that an
exhibition is not a race. But for those in doubt, I meant a real Rocket
Racing League event with multiple rockets competing.

- Filbert

  #30  
Old April 23rd 08, 03:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Steve Foley
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Posts: 563
Default ZZZ Rocket Racer LeagueZZZ

"Big John" wrote in message
...

**************************************

Does anyone think Moller has some mony in this?


No, but I bet he could sue for copyright infringement.


 




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