Venting of Lycoming 0-290 D Engine

On Apr 28, 5:36*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"stol" wrote in message

...

I wonder what the answer is, and why that solution would be a problem. I'm
sure
it has been tried, since it seems there is truly nothing new under the sun,
when
it comes to airplanes.
--
Jim in NC

*You have hurt my feelings again....... :((

Whoops!

Sorry.

That should have read "nothing new under the sun, when it comes to the _old_
designed air cooled opposed aircraft engines.

Or something like that! ;-)

Speaking of auto engine aircraft, how do you handle the crankcase ventilation
issue? *Vent overboard, or recirculate?
--
Jim in NC

I have tried three ways. The first was to recirculate using a PCV
valve. At the time it seems to be the most logical. The motor was
still fresh and has a slight amount of blowby. That system made it
real twitchy to try to lean, but is was doable. my second concept was
the racing vacuum system used in dragsters, That did work great but I
am now on my third design of the exhaust pipes. those don't have the
fittings welded in them for the vacuum so I dump the stuff overboard,
what little blowby there is. This is like developing software.
Version 1.0,,, 1.2,,,, 2.0,,, 2.3... Yada Yada yada... On the final
engines that will go out the door they will incorporate the Moroso
vacuum system. Hands down,, the more power you make the greater the
suction. Just what a aircraft engine needs.

In article
,
stol wrote:

On Apr 28, 5:36*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"stol" wrote in message

...

I wonder what the answer is, and why that solution would be a problem.
I'm
sure
it has been tried, since it seems there is truly nothing new under the
sun,
when
it comes to airplanes.
--
Jim in NC

*You have hurt my feelings again....... :((

Whoops!

Sorry.

That should have read "nothing new under the sun, when it comes to the
_old_
designed air cooled opposed aircraft engines.

Or something like that! ;-)

Speaking of auto engine aircraft, how do you handle the crankcase
ventilation
issue? *Vent overboard, or recirculate?
--
Jim in NC

I have tried three ways. The first was to recirculate using a PCV
valve. At the time it seems to be the most logical. The motor was
still fresh and has a slight amount of blowby. That system made it
real twitchy to try to lean, but is was doable. my second concept was
the racing vacuum system used in dragsters, That did work great but I
am now on my third design of the exhaust pipes. those don't have the
fittings welded in them for the vacuum so I dump the stuff overboard,
what little blowby there is. This is like developing software.
Version 1.0,,, 1.2,,,, 2.0,,, 2.3... Yada Yada yada... On the final
engines that will go out the door they will incorporate the Moroso
vacuum system. Hands down,, the more power you make the greater the
suction. Just what a aircraft engine needs.

Actually, it is not a good idea to ingest crankcase fumes into the
induction system, as those fumes contain acids (bromic, sulfuric acids)
that corrode carburetors, valves, throttle bodies, etc.

It is best just to vent the crankcase overboard, to ambient air.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

On Apr 28, 9:00*pm, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:
In article
,





*stol wrote:
On Apr 28, 5:36*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"stol" wrote in message

....

I wonder what the answer is, and why that solution would be a problem.
I'm
sure
it has been tried, since it seems there is truly nothing new under the
sun,
when
it comes to airplanes.
--
Jim in NC

*You have hurt my feelings again....... :((

Whoops!

Sorry.

That should have read "nothing new under the sun, when it comes to the
_old_
designed air cooled opposed aircraft engines.

Or something like that! ;-)

Speaking of auto engine aircraft, how do you handle the crankcase
ventilation
issue? *Vent overboard, or recirculate?
--
Jim in NC

I have tried *three ways. The first was to recirculate using a PCV
valve. At the time it seems to be the most logical. The motor was
still fresh and has a slight amount of blowby. That system made it
real twitchy to try to lean, but is was doable. my second concept was
the racing vacuum system used in dragsters, That did work great but I
am now on my third design of the exhaust pipes. those don't have the
fittings welded in them for the vacuum so I dump the stuff overboard,
what little blowby there is. This is like developing software.
Version 1.0,,, 1.2,,,, 2.0,,, 2.3... Yada Yada yada... On the final
engines that will go out the door they will incorporate the Moroso
vacuum system. Hands down,, the more power you make the greater the
suction. Just what a aircraft engine needs.

Actually, it is not a good idea to ingest crankcase fumes into the
induction system, as those fumes contain acids (bromic, sulfuric acids)
that corrode carburetors, valves, throttle bodies, etc.

It is best just to vent the crankcase overboard, to ambient air.

--
Remove _'s *from email address to talk to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Interesting,, I will call Detroit this morning to warn them that the
PCV valve, in operation since the late 60's is clearly defective....

:).

Ben

In article
,
stol wrote:

On Apr 28, 9:00*pm, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:
In article
,





*stol wrote:
On Apr 28, 5:36*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"stol" wrote in message

...

I wonder what the answer is, and why that solution would be a problem.
I'm
sure
it has been tried, since it seems there is truly nothing new under the
sun,
when
it comes to airplanes.
--
Jim in NC

*You have hurt my feelings again....... :((

Whoops!

Sorry.

That should have read "nothing new under the sun, when it comes to the
_old_
designed air cooled opposed aircraft engines.

Or something like that! ;-)

Speaking of auto engine aircraft, how do you handle the crankcase
ventilation
issue? *Vent overboard, or recirculate?
--
Jim in NC

I have tried *three ways. The first was to recirculate using a PCV
valve. At the time it seems to be the most logical. The motor was
still fresh and has a slight amount of blowby. That system made it
real twitchy to try to lean, but is was doable. my second concept was
the racing vacuum system used in dragsters, That did work great but I
am now on my third design of the exhaust pipes. those don't have the
fittings welded in them for the vacuum so I dump the stuff overboard,
what little blowby there is. This is like developing software.
Version 1.0,,, 1.2,,,, 2.0,,, 2.3... Yada Yada yada... On the final
engines that will go out the door they will incorporate the Moroso
vacuum system. Hands down,, the more power you make the greater the
suction. Just what a aircraft engine needs.

Actually, it is not a good idea to ingest crankcase fumes into the
induction system, as those fumes contain acids (bromic, sulfuric acids)
that corrode carburetors, valves, throttle bodies, etc.

It is best just to vent the crankcase overboard, to ambient air.

--
Remove _'s *from email address to talk to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Interesting,, I will call Detroit this morning to warn them that the
PCV valve, in operation since the late 60's is clearly defective....


The PCV valve was government mandated for pollution control only! It
makes no difference to the gov't if it harms your engine components, as
long as it meets THEIR requirements. It would be stupid to install one
on an aircraft.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

On Apr 29, 8:58*am, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:
In article
,





*stol wrote:
On Apr 28, 9:00*pm, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:
In article
,

*stol wrote:
On Apr 28, 5:36*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"stol" wrote in message

...

I wonder what the answer is, and why that solution would be a problem.
I'm
sure
it has been tried, since it seems there is truly nothing new under the
sun,
when
it comes to airplanes.
--
Jim in NC

*You have hurt my feelings again....... :((

Whoops!

Sorry.

That should have read "nothing new under the sun, when it comes to the
_old_
designed air cooled opposed aircraft engines.

Or something like that! ;-)

Speaking of auto engine aircraft, how do you handle the crankcase
ventilation
issue? *Vent overboard, or recirculate?
--
Jim in NC

I have tried *three ways. The first was to recirculate using a PCV
valve. At the time it seems to be the most logical. The motor was
still fresh and has a slight amount of blowby. That system made it
real twitchy to try to lean, but is was doable. my second concept was
the racing vacuum system used in dragsters, That did work great but I
am now on my third design of the exhaust pipes. those don't have the
fittings welded in them for the vacuum so I dump the stuff overboard,
what little blowby there is. This is like developing software.
Version 1.0,,, 1.2,,,, 2.0,,, 2.3... Yada Yada yada... On the final
engines that will go out the door they will incorporate the Moroso
vacuum system. Hands down,, the more power you make the greater the
suction. Just what a aircraft engine needs.

Actually, it is not a good idea to ingest crankcase fumes into the
induction system, as those fumes contain acids (bromic, sulfuric acids)
that corrode carburetors, valves, throttle bodies, etc.

It is best just to vent the crankcase overboard, to ambient air.

--
Remove _'s *from email address to talk to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Interesting,, I will call Detroit this morning to warn them that the
PCV valve, in operation since the late 60's is clearly defective....

The PCV valve was government mandated for pollution control only! It
makes no difference to the gov't if it harms your engine components, as
long as it meets THEIR requirements. It would be stupid to install one
on an aircraft.

--
Remove _'s *from email address to talk to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't want to get in a ****ing match with you. I am headed out to
fly my plane and I don't have time to waste. I can say I have been
working on engines most of my 53 years and I cannot say that even once
did I see corrosion, pitting, wear, etc or premature failure of any
component that the PVC valve related (bromic, sulfuric acid) theory
created.. In fact you don't have a clue on how a modern day engine is
plumbed. A PVC system dumps the (bromic, sulfuric acids), if they
really exist in any viable concentratiohat into the intake manifold
DOWNSTREAM of the carb or throttle body so your concept is BS. I
respect you as a fellow pilot, a person who has chosen to live in an
airpark, which in itself is a statement to you have a large commitment
to aviation and a fellow experimental aircraft owner. I would bet if a
lycoming had a PCV valve you would praising its function... Just my
opinion...

Tailwinds...

Ben
N801BH
EAA lifetime member.

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote

The PCV valve was government mandated for pollution control only! It
makes no difference to the gov't if it harms your engine components, as
long as it meets THEIR requirements. It would be stupid to install one
on an aircraft.

While I believe your stand has merit, I think the truth is somewhere in the
middle. While some harm may be done, it is very little.

Otherwise, I don't think I would have gotten two of my last Detroit engines and
induction systems to over 200,000 miles. Added to that, the fact that these
engines had _no_ problem with their induction systems, at those miles.
--
Jim in NC

"stol" wrote

my second concept was
the racing vacuum system used in dragsters, That did work great but I
am now on my third design of the exhaust pipes.

What do dragsters and such use in their pipes for vacuum? Some type of venture,
or something?
--
Jim in NC

On Apr 29, 5:53 pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote

The PCV valve was government mandated for pollution control only! It
makes no difference to the gov't if it harms your engine components, as
long as it meets THEIR requirements. It would be stupid to install one
on an aircraft.

While I believe your stand has merit, I think the truth is somewhere in the
middle. While some harm may be done, it is very little.

Otherwise, I don't think I would have gotten two of my last Detroit engines and
induction systems to over 200,000 miles. Added to that, the fact that these
engines had _no_ problem with their induction systems, at those miles.
--
Jim in NC

Acids are formed in the crankcase, but mostly as a result of
condensation mixing with the oil and allowed to sit for some time.
Water breaks down and combines with elements in the oil to form those
acids, with the dissimilar metals acting as catalysts. The acids eat
bearings and cams and cylinders and pistons and such stuff.
The PCV system is better than a straight vent, where it can be
made to work. The intake manifold draws the blowby gases out of the
crankcase, those gases including water vapor, unburned hydrocarbons
and combustion byproducts. The volume of gases drawn out is larger
than the blowby gases, so filtered air is let into the case at some
other point. This purging keeps the case cleaner than with just an
overboard vent.
The PCV gases are reburned and blown out with the exhaust. They
do much less damage that way, both to the engine and the environment.

Dan

On Apr 29, 5:56*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"stol" wrote

*my second concept was
the racing vacuum system used in dragsters, That did work great but I
am now on my third design of the exhaust pipes.

What do dragsters and such use in their pipes for vacuum? *Some type of venture,
or something?
--
Jim in NC

Jim, It is a rather easy device. It acts just like those air nozzles
with a small hose attached at an angle that one can use to spray
solvent on a part to clean it. As the air passes across the side
opening it creates a vacuum. Here is a link to Moroso's kit. The kit
comes with two 3/8" pipes about 3" long, you weld on a bung at about a
45 degree angle to the tailpipe and screw in the pipe. The kit has a
check valve to prevent backfires from entering the valve covers. On my
application I made my own set up, ( imagine that)... I used just one
on the right tailpipe and I had way too much suction so I had to
restrict it. Kinda like the old joke " she could suck a golf ball
through a garden hose".. This was when my motor had 10 hours on it or
so and the rings had not completely seated. I took that version off
because the motor is now so sealed up I have practically no blowby and
saved a couple of lbs... YMMV.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Ben

On Apr 29, 9:17*pm, stol wrote:
On Apr 29, 5:56*pm, "Morgans" wrote:

"stol" wrote

*my second concept was
the racing vacuum system used in dragsters, That did work great but I
am now on my third design of the exhaust pipes.

What do dragsters and such use in their pipes for vacuum? *Some type of venture,
or something?
--
Jim in NC

Jim, It is a rather easy device. It acts just like those air nozzles
with a *small hose attached at an angle that one can use to spray
solvent on a part to clean it. As the air passes across the side
opening it creates a vacuum. Here is a link to Moroso's kit. The kit
comes with two 3/8" pipes about 3" long, you weld on a bung at about a
45 degree angle to the tailpipe and screw in the pipe. The kit has a
check valve to prevent backfires from entering the valve covers. On my
application I made my own set up, ( imagine that)... I used just one
on the right tailpipe and I had way too much suction so I had to
restrict it. Kinda like the old joke " she could suck a golf ball
through a garden hose".. This was when my motor had 10 hours on it or
so and the rings had not completely seated. I took that version off
because the motor is now so sealed up I have practically no blowby and
saved a couple of lbs... *YMMV.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=1&part=MOR%2D....

Ben

Ben
Never knew these existed. Have you or anyone else tried it on a Lyc?
Probably need a couple of intakes on opposite valve covers?
Ed