Which sustainer system would you chose for your sailplane?

Pegase are basically the same fuselage as a ASW20 - just French - and 20's are on their list.

I did ask, but there is no one in the US doing the retro fit - I was hoping to look at FES more at the convention. I would even consider buying a ASW20 or ASW27 in Europe and shipping it back - but I do not know the process.

If it were available as a retro fit I bet there would be a long line. For people like myself that want to do XC and want to do some contests, I believe FES is a game changer. (I know the romance about landing out.....) The increased drag/weight may keep me off a podium, but that is not my total interest as my skill level.

WH1

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 2:33:25 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Pegase are basically the same fuselage as a ASW20 - just French - and 20's are on their list.

I did ask, but there is no one in the US doing the retro fit - I was hoping to look at FES more at the convention. I would even consider buying a ASW20 or ASW27 in Europe and shipping it back - but I do not know the process.

If it were available as a retro fit I bet there would be a long line. For people like myself that want to do XC and want to do some contests, I believe FES is a game changer. (I know the romance about landing out.....) The increased drag/weight may keep me off a podium, but that is not my total interest as my skill level.

WH1

Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that you will ever see FES units installed as a retrofit on various glider models. There are many reasons for this including: regulatory issues, legal issues, cost, design issues, market potential, installation complexity, etc, etc, etc. I am sure Luka could explain these various issues in more detail should he wish, but due to these reasons and others, the focus of LZ Design has been to offer the FES as an option on new gliders. Now, it all first began with the LAK-17A, that Luka Znidarsic used as the initial test bed and proof of concept glider. He then actually retrofitted a few LAK-17As that were shipped to his facility for the installations.

It was then offered as an option on the new LAK-17B and the Silent 2. As many of you know, in the past year, the FES is now offered by Schempp-Hirth on the Ventus 2cxa and the Discus 2c. It will also be offered on the new Ventus. HPH is also offering the FES on the Shark 304eS.

Finally, I hate to be a pessimist on this "retrofit" idea for other models, but I am doubtful that this will ever become a reality (except for perhaps some additional LAK-17As). Now, that being said, we all know things can change (just like the weather) and one should "never say never," but this is basically where we are today.... Thx - Renny

How about a solid rocket JATO type unit for a sustainer. No drag, no recharging, pretty reliable, 3,000 ft climb should be doable. It also involves fire which should help with the marketing ad campaign graphics. Push the button and hang on.

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 5:14:56 PM UTC-5, SF wrote:
How about a solid rocket JATO type unit for a sustainer.

I initially toyed with the idea of a single-use 3000 foot climb save-my-ass FES cost effectively powered by a boatload of alkaline D-cells. But I soon realized how much a FES would extend my range in routine use. That mountain ridge to the west that we rarely fly over because the cloudbase is rarely more than 500 feet higher? It takes hours to do an auto retrieve from the far side.

Why not go west, explore, use FES to get home if the cloudbase drops in the meantime. I want one.

This thread was originally about types of sustainer. Just a note, while the jet engines sound cool, they are effectively the same weight as a solo sustainer with the required fuel, they need a lot of fuel. and you cannot windmill them. For me a retractable small sustainer would be the best. Unfortunately the ASG-32 is the only such glider. Wish there was a single seat 18 meter with retractable electric sustainer.

For the cost I would get a self launcher vice a sustainer. I know the Lak 17 FES can launch but I think they were originally and maybe still calling it a sustainer. For that kind of money I would want the glider manufacture to endorse launch. I think the Mini Lak and the Silent endorse launch. I would hate to have over 100k in a glider and self launch and something go wrong and insurance not pay off because I was launching a sustainer. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I do like the ease of use of the FES and think its great

That's too bad Renny - I am sure you know allot more about it than I do

But it would be so good and even if it was fairly expensive - I bet the market would be there. There are so many really odd looking light aircraft flying that look like there were built in a garage using hammers and a few nails........ to bad you can't just take a ASW20 and call in home built and just promise not to crash in the middle of a town - a guy can dream LOL

I know that at our club and talking to pilots progressing thru Solo to XC - the primary hurdle is landing is a place that is not an airport. and it seems these days that rather than being a way to meet new farmer friends, Land outs are just trespassing.

I have not experience the Sustainer vs self launch as much of a hurdle. That (in my limited discussions) usually has more to do with convenience - most pilots are fine getting towed or shot of a winch. But getting between airports, where you are selecting fields as the only option............ that spooks many.

For simplicity, reliability and (lower hour) pilot acceptance - FES is the future (I think)

Saving for my Discus FES

WH1

At 01:24 07 January 2016, Casey wrote:
For the cost I would get a self launcher vice a sustainer. I
know the Lak
=
17 FES can launch but I think they were originally and
maybe still calling
=
it a sustainer. For that kind of money I would want the
glider
manufacture=
to endorse launch. I think the Mini Lak and the Silent
endorse launch.
I=
would hate to have over 100k in a glider and self launch
and something go
=
wrong and insurance not pay off because I was launching a
sustainer.
Pleas=
e correct me if I'm wrong.

I do like the ease of use of the FES and think its great


It's quite simple: it's either a self launch sailplane or not:
look at the specifications.
Additionally you are mixing Ultralights (the Silent) with
conventional sailplanes (the LAK17B FES). My understanding
is that is NOT legal, in Europe, to self launch the LAK17BFES
(or indeed any other true "sustainer" sailplane). It's been
done of course but it makes no sense with an electric power
plant, what little battery power you started with has now
gone so you have no useful sustainer performance left. Why
would you even think that's a good idea?

The Silent Electro is a different (lighter) animal, designed as
a self launch. You could launch to a modest height and have
some sensible retrieve capability but you're sitting in a
fragile (compared to a modern sailplane) structu lower Va,
lower Vne etc. It's very nicely built and a joy to rig. It's not
much cheaper than a LAK17BFES......choices.

A few years back I asked FES about shipping a kit to the US to be
installed locally in my LAK-17a. The response I got was that, to
maintain quality, they would not provide kits. They would, however,
travel to the US at my expense and perform the installation for me. The
cost at the time was $28,000 and, if I could find 4 other gliders, they
would offer me a discount.

I haven't compared that price to the price difference on a new glider
with and without a FES but I would guess that it was in line with buying
a new glider. Travel, shipping, and lodging costs are considerable for
the duration of the installation.

On 1/6/2016 2:33 PM, wrote:
Pegase are basically the same fuselage as a ASW20 - just French - and 20's are on their list.

I did ask, but there is no one in the US doing the retro fit - I was hoping to look at FES more at the convention. I would even consider buying a ASW20 or ASW27 in Europe and shipping it back - but I do not know the process.

If it were available as a retro fit I bet there would be a long line. For people like myself that want to do XC and want to do some contests, I believe FES is a game changer. (I know the romance about landing out.....) The increased drag/weight may keep me off a podium, but that is not my total interest as my skill level.

WH1

--
Dan, 5J

Now that is interesting. bhanson..at..roitech.com - maybe we can chat off rec.soaring

All the FES gliders I have seen are 100k+ - you could get a nice ASW20 or even a ASW27 add 25k and still be within reach.

You would not end up with a glider that gets you to the Worlds or the top of a podium - but it would get you home and not in the middle of a field in the dark LOL

WH1