Janus 2-seat glider as a club glider?

Le jeudi 17 janvier 2013 08:35:59 UTC+1, Eric Munk a écrit*:
Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way.

Why? I've been with a club in Germany (also as instructor) which did ab-initio including first solo on a Janus B (later on on a Janus C).
No problem whatsoever.

Thanks for that.

It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the
quality of the instruction.


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Le jeudi 17 janvier 2013 08:35:59 UTC+1, Eric Munk a écrit :
Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way.

Why? I've been with a club in Germany (also as instructor) which did
ab-initio including first solo on a Janus B (later on on a Janus C).
No problem whatsoever.

The light dawns!

On Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:48:24 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks for that.



It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the

quality of the instruction.





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Le jeudi 17 janvier 2013 08:35:59 UTC+1, Eric Munk a �crit :

Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way.



Why? I've been with a club in Germany (also as instructor) which did

ab-initio including first solo on a Janus B (later on on a Janus C).

No problem whatsoever.

On Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:48:24 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the
quality of the instruction.

Yep.

Reminds me of a visit to a local glider club a couple decades
back, where I watched a Janus B make several extremely firm
arrival/bounce/vigorous arrival kinda landings. I inquired as
to who was the instructor in charge, and went and offered to
shoot a few landings with the guys who seemed to be having a
lot of trouble. After my kind offer was declined, someone
came and informed me that the instructor I spoke to had
been flying those, um, arrivals, oooops...

The club then disposed of the "too difficult" aircraft...

Gotta agree Dan. I have known 2 ladies that did ab-initio training to solo and beyond in a Janus A and both turned out fine pilots. The quality of instruction is certainly what seals the deal

At my club we have a Duo X and a Discus CS that some people struggle to fly well and it is down to the lack of top quality instruction and a culture among some of the newer and older pilots where they are more concerned with getting 'credentialed' than actually gaining real skill. Just getting a box ticked off in the training syllabus to some of them means "I know all I have to about that now" instead of "I'm judged competent at that and I can now work on getting more skilled at it"

:-) Colin

Originally Posted by Dan Marotta

Thanks for that.

It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the
quality of the instruction.


wrote in message
...
Le jeudi 17 janvier 2013 08:35:59 UTC+1, Eric Munk a écrit :
Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way.

Why? I've been with a club in Germany (also as instructor) which did
ab-initio including first solo on a Janus B (later on on a Janus C).
No problem whatsoever.

It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the
quality of the instruction.

We do about 4000-5000 instructional flights a year, mostly on ASK-21's,
about half of that is ab initio, and we like to think that our standard of
instruction is pretty good. Our experience is that however well you train
students, they sooner or later still need just that little extra room for
error while honing their skills, especially when flying early solos. An
ASK-21 will give that room. A Janus C is a lot less likely to do so. Then
there's also the maintenance point of view: Schempp-Hirth just does not
stand up to the punishment and wear Schleicher can take.

It's not a question of being able to use a Janus C for ab initio. Sure you
can. But does that mean I would want to? No. Not when there's so much
better available.

Just my two cents.

It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the
quality of the instruction.

We do about 4000-5000 tuition flights a year, mostly on ASK-21s. About half
of them are ab initio. No matter how well we train people (and I'd like to
think our instructors'experience and skills are above average), we find
that there's always a time when early solo pilots (who also fly their first
solo's on the twoseaters) need just that extra safety margin. A margin that
a glider like the ASK-21 offers. And a Janus C doesn't. Keeps the student
pilot and the glider in one piece (in that order).

CAN you use a Janus C for ab initio. Sure. Would I like my club to do so?
No way. There's aircraft far better suited for that, from both a
maintenance and safety point of view. Just my two cents.

About the Janus tail chute. I had a share of a Janus A back in the 80's. The sum total of the instruction I had in the use of the tail chute was poor at best, i.e. "get the nose down when deploying the chute or you'll never get the speed back"

After some flying around higher up with the chute deployed (deliberately) before joining the pattern one day I found the following; at low speed it would still glide as well or better than a Blanik as long as you kept the speed back, it would still thermal ok with the same caveat, keep the speed low and that the chute risers at slow speed would stream one side of the rudder or the other meaning a hefty push was needed to initiate a turn at which point they would pop under to the other side.

Would have been nice if someone had been able to share that with me right from the start. I didn't find it necessary to land it fast either, a quick check of the airbrakes at the flare would suffice if it was sinking on too quickly. Best field landing over a 4'6" fence was under 100 yards with everything hanging out and the useless drum brake giving a small amount of assistance

In all the flying in the Janus I did, the chute got used on about 75% of the flights and the ONLY failure I ever experienced was when deploying the chute while dumping water. (Karl and Iris were visiting New Zealand at the time and I had her as a passenger on that flight while Karl was off flying a borrowed ASW 20)

Ah the good old days. . .
Colin

Originally Posted by Eric Munk

Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way. Advanced
trainer: not ideal. As a cross-country trainer it is well suited. Flaps, so
a bit more complicated to fly than other sialplanes for some pilots.
Relatively high landing speed. Forget about the drag chute (it works about
50-50 chance). It is a pig in maintenance in a club environment, especially
above 3000 hours. I had one that was on its 3rd set of wing-fuse pins, 7th
set of stabilizer attachments and play on controls was a constant issue.
The ironwares on Schempp-Hirth are disappointingly low quality, alas.

We (www.hyik.fi) have Janus CT (with sustainer engine). We
also have ASK-21 for basic training, couple Astirs and couple LS
single seaters.

We have 200 hours requirement for Janus solo. It's partly
because of the engine. At the moment it's our only glider with
flaps.

The rear pedals are adjustable, but for me a little too close (i'm
186 cm tall). If I cross my legs while not flying from rear seat it's
OK.

Duo is more elegant to fly. On a good day Janus is very nice
glider to fly, but it is a bit heavy in circling. If you testfly one,
stay on neutral flaps until you have centered to the thermal,
then go to positive flaps if you like.

IMHO Janus prices are low. It is excellent for XC training. I got
introduced to XC flying on 300km flight with Janus. It was then
much easier to start XC flying on my own.



At 00:07 15 January 2013, K_Miller wrote:
I am interested in learning if other soaring clubs have a Janus
2-seat
glider in their fleet, which model they have, its suitability as a
club
ship and whether they would recommend one to a club that
was looking for a
2-seat cross country trainer.
If you have other personal experience in the Janus, your
opinion would be
appreciated.

On Monday, January 14, 2013 5:07:15 PM UTC-7, K_Miller wrote:
I am interested in learning if other soaring clubs have a Janus 2-seat glider in their fleet, which model they have, its suitability as a club ship and whether they would recommend one to a club that was looking for a 2-seat cross country trainer.

If you have other personal experience in the Janus, your opinion would be appreciated.