So there I was...

Kinda have to agree with you Jose. In my instrument training, I never
missed the AI when instruments "failed".

More to the point, with the AI tumbled, it still didn't bother me (at
least in the sim). Never been IMC for real with a tumbled AI though.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Bonehenge" wrote in message
I'm not a CFI, but carry a pair of them [instrument covers] in my bag for
just such an
occasion.

Excellent advice! I would suggest planting them in a very accessible
location if your by yourself. If you have to
turn to root around briefly in the back seat the head motion might lead to
vertigo. I use post-its to make small notes
on the clipboard and they suffice nicely if you scrunch one into the
instrument recess.

I'd still like to float the question about the oil smell and the difference
between a "wet" and a "dry" vacuum pump.

Todd

Todd W. Deckard wrote:


I'd still like to float the question about the oil smell and the difference
between a "wet" and a "dry" vacuum pump.

Wet pump....Uses engine oil to cool the pump. Typically lasts thousands
of hours between overhauls. Does not slowly deteriorate to cool itself.
Potential exists to pump all the engine oil overboard if the pump fails.
Dry Pump... Uses the wear of the vanes to lubricate itself thus
guaranteeing a failure well before a wet pump. Cleaner, because it
doesn't use engine oil in any way it does not emit a fine mist of oil
onto the belly.
Both pumps are easily overhauled. Dry pumps get very hot during normal
operation thus contributing to failure. Wet pumps are much cooler due
to the oil.

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 20:55:20 -0700, Newps wrote:



Todd W. Deckard wrote:


I'd still like to float the question about the oil smell and the difference
between a "wet" and a "dry" vacuum pump.

Wet pump....Uses engine oil to cool the pump. Typically lasts thousands
of hours between overhauls. Does not slowly deteriorate to cool itself.
Potential exists to pump all the engine oil overboard if the pump fails.
Dry Pump... Uses the wear of the vanes to lubricate itself thus
guaranteeing a failure well before a wet pump. Cleaner, because it
doesn't use engine oil in any way it does not emit a fine mist of oil
onto the belly.

Mine has nearly 4000 hours on it and it's still going strong. You can
always drain that oil mist back into the crank case. With 25 hour oil
changes mine is down well less than a pint. The last time I had to add
oil between changes was during break in.

Both pumps are easily overhauled. Dry pumps get very hot during normal
operation thus contributing to failure. Wet pumps are much cooler due
to the oil.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 22:20:34 -0600, "mbremer216"
wrote:

On my way to visit relatives for X-mas. Flying from Northwest Indiana to
Savannah, GA in a Cherokee 180. Itching to put my recently earned IFR
ticket to work. Climbed out of my home field on Christmas Eve after the
risk of freezing fog had thawed. Up through a light cloud level at 2500 for
my first fuel stop at KLEX. Solid layer 2000 thick and an ILS down to 900'
and 5 miles - magic! Stop to fill the plane's tanks and empty mine.
Cleared through the layer and over the mountains. The cloud layer slipped
away behind me and nothing but clear sky and the mountains ahead. ATC
cleared to climb to 9000 for terrain and radar coverage.

Passing through 7500. Southeast bound past the London VOR. A whiff of oil
smell in the cockpit that passed as quickly as it came. Then, the suction
needle drops from it's usual 5.0 to nothing at all. What a revolting
development! Being in VFR conditions, a diversion to KTRI for help.

Mechanic confirmed that the vac pump had given up the ghost. Seized tighter
than dicks hat band. By now it was getting toward dark so continuing on
with a replacement didn't seem very attractive. Got it fixed the next day,
but freezing conditions and nasty winds kept us holed up in a motel room in
Kingsport, TN for Christmas. Nothing like Doritos and Snausages for
Christmas dinner while I explained to my wife how it's not the destination
but the trip that counts.

She said that I should enjoy my new vacuum pump for Christmas!!!

Ahhhh... The world of small plane IFR:-))
My Deb is "flight in known icing *conditions* prohibited.



Mike

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 23:04:11 GMT, Jose
wrote:

Kinda have to agree with you Jose. In my instrument training, I never
missed the AI when instruments "failed".

More to the point, with the AI tumbled, it still didn't bother me (at
least in the sim). Never been IMC for real with a tumbled AI though.

Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing. One of
the warnings is when you feel a bit of vertigo, or disorientation.



Jose
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing.

That's what I've been told, and it may be different in a real airplane.
However, I was quite surprised that in the sim, I did not get any of
that. I found it trivial to ignore it. However, I did find myself
steering to the dead DG. What are other pilot's experiences with a
visible failed AI in a (non-motion) sim, and in a real airplane?

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message t...
Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing.

That's what I've been told, and it may be different in a real airplane.
However, I was quite surprised that in the sim, I did not get any of
that. I found it trivial to ignore it. However, I did find myself
steering to the dead DG. What are other pilot's experiences with a
visible failed AI in a (non-motion) sim, and in a real airplane?

Jose

Some years ago, the AI in my Flight Director began to roll over
as I was being vectored to an ILS approach into Salt Lake City.
I thought I could ignore it by using the copilot's AI instead. Wrong!
That was very difficult to do, and if I hadn't broken out of clouds
about halfway down the ILS course, I'd probably have gone missed.
It's much better to cover the failed display if you plan to disregard it.

Some years ago, the AI in my Flight Director began to roll over
as I was being vectored to an ILS approach into Salt Lake City.
I thought I could ignore it by using the copilot's AI instead. Wrong!

Thanks. How did it go? (did you not include the copilot's AI in the
scan sufficiently? Did the tumbled AI keep grabbing your eyeballs?)

It's much better to cover the failed display if you plan to disregard it.

I wholeheartedly agree. I just found it odd that, in myself, the DG was
harder to ignore than the AI.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message et...
Some years ago, the AI in my Flight Director began to roll over
as I was being vectored to an ILS approach into Salt Lake City.
I thought I could ignore it by using the copilot's AI instead. Wrong!

Thanks. How did it go? (did you not include the copilot's AI in the
scan sufficiently? Did the tumbled AI keep grabbing your eyeballs?)

It's much better to cover the failed display if you plan to disregard it.

I wholeheartedly agree. I just found it odd that, in myself, the DG was
harder to ignore than the AI.

Jose
--
At the time, I *thought* I was including the copilot's AI in my scan OK,
but I'd say the subliminal message of the tilted Flight Director was strong,
and I kept "correcting" by it without realizing I was doing so.
The habit pattern of following the Flight Director probably overcame
the conscious intent of following the copilot's instrument.