I removed myself from an airline flight - long

"Roger Long" om
I'll bet the crew was thinking, "I wish that was me." as they watched you walk away.
--
Gotta tell you, I think that thought passed thru some of the crew when they saw me sitting at the gate.

"Rob Perkins"
I think if I started to feel like a flight is unsafe, I'd have done
something similar. What was the airline's ticket policy? Did it cost
you more money to go on a later flight?

No it didn't. Everything was handled very nicely. Forgot the airline
though.

"Robert Moore"

The ground crew has a lot more training and experience with
the cargo doors than does the flight crew. Airlines have
specialist to work on each task and if I recall correctly, at
one time, one of the major airlines even had a line maintenence
foreman doing the aircraft pre-flight inspection instead of the
flightcrew.
Airline pilots are just that, pilots, they are not trained to
do the work of a maintenence crew.

That's exactly what the crew communicated to me (my quotes were from memory
but the sense I left the cockpit with was exactly what is said above).

Looking back, what happened was that I truly was spooked for a few minutes.
Once spooked, I reasoned to myself that I'd be a fool not to pay attention
to the fear.

"Jim" wrote in message ...
Ok, let me get this straight.... You are asking if you were smart by getting out of an airplane that:
a) had a cargo door that wouldn't latch... hmm wasn't that a bit of a problem with early 727s or was it DC9s?
b) had a cargo loading crew who's solution was "get a bigger hammer" and hit it alot harder... hey, it works with empty beer cans, this is just aluminium!
c) was being flown by pilots who placed all of their trust in the judgement of the "bigger hammer guys" after all, we sit way up here in front
d) was being flown by pilots who where of the opinion that "the bigger hammer guys" some how would guarantee the safety of the flight cause after all, they're staying on the ground

I think you were the ONLY smart one.

I would love to agree ... but if I only applied the same conservative, overly cautious thinking to all of my own flights. It's a lot easier to decline a flight as 1 passenger among 100 that to decline one with 100 passengers in the back... or sometimes even when it's just 1 sitting beside you.

"Maule Driver" writes:

This happened in Houston years ago - maybe 6 or 7. Curious about what any
airline people think of this.

[snip details]

Seems to me there were a series of DC-10 crashes in the early years
(of the DC-10, I mean) that turned out to relate to cargo doors not
being properly closed and fastened.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: noguns-nomoney.com www.dd-b.net/carry/
Photos: dd-b.lighthunters.net Snapshots: www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: dragaera.info/

On 12/16/03 1:34 PM, in article
, "Maule Driver"
wrote:

Well, they were as nice as could be about it and didn't even let a patronizing
smirk out but I was totally spooked and said that I was going to get off the
plane. I explained that it shouldn't be a problem since I only had a carry
on bag and well, I was just going to stay behind

I bet you couldn¹t do this in today¹s terrorist environment.

"Nomen Nescio"
Just curious, after you, a knowledgable and careful pilot, decided that an
unsafe situation was
developing that could potentially kill 100 people, how could you just walk
off without a word to
the other (non pilot) passengers? If the plane HAD gone down as a result
of the door failing,
how would you be feeling right now?
I, personally, have never been in such a situation. But I think I would
have been vocal enough
about my concerns that the rest of the passengers might have joined me, or
decided to take
the chance. At least I would have been able to sleep at night if something
had happened.
But then again, I've always been too controversial according to my
parents, teachers,employers,
friends, etc.

I thought a lot about that then and now. If it had gone down, I'm sure that
life as a survivor would be unimaginably different. At the same time there
is a perverse desire to have something happen if only to be proved right.

However, in that context I was not a knowledgeable and careful pilot. I was
a private pilot with few skills or training relevant to the situation.
Maybe 100 hours in SEL a/c, 1,000+ in sailplanes, with many thousands
BS'ing. The cockpit crew and the carrier had the skills, training, and
experience to make those decisions and in the end, it's their call.

In fact, nothing was materially wrong. Making an attempt to warn other
passengers would be akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Perhaps a more common situation for pilots is where you know a pilot with
which you won't fly. It may be the a/c, or the pilot's skill, or the
combination of the two. Do you tell other potential passengers? The
pilot's work associates? Family or friends? Do I have a responsibility to
share my assessment with others or a responsibility to allow others to make
their own decisions?

In article , Paul Rekieta
wrote:

On 12/16/03 1:34 PM, in article
, "Maule Driver"
wrote:

Well, they were as nice as could be about it and didn't even let a
patronizing
smirk out but I was totally spooked and said that I was going to get off the
plane. I explained that it shouldn't be a problem since I only had a carry
on bag and well, I was just going to stay behind

I bet you couldn¹t do this in today¹s terrorist environment.


Couldn't do what? Get off the airplane? That's preposterous, what are
you suggesting they would do? Not let you off? Handcuff you to your
seat?

Please.

"Tom Fleischman" wrote in message
news:171220030905080167%

I bet you couldn¹t do this in today¹s terrorist environment.


Couldn't do what? Get off the airplane? That's preposterous, what are
you suggesting they would do? Not let you off? Handcuff you to your
seat?

Please.

I believe the thought is that you might have left some device on the plane.
I would not be surprised if, while they let you off the plane, they also
make others get off and then inspect the cabin. Maybe with dogs. I know it
sounds outlandish, but I can easily imagine it happening.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

"Tom Fleischman"
In article , Paul Rekieta
, "Maule Driver"
Well, they were as nice as could be about it and didn't even let a
patronizing
smirk out but I was totally spooked and said that I was going to get
off the
plane. I explained that it shouldn't be a problem since I only had a
carry
on bag and well, I was just going to stay behind

I bet you couldn¹t do this in today¹s terrorist environment.

Couldn't do what? Get off the airplane? That's preposterous, what are
you suggesting they would do? Not let you off? Handcuff you to your
seat?

Please.
Well I'm sure one could get off but I think there might be other
consequences. If a specific procedure is lacking I'm sure the pilot would
attempt to evaluate the request and the person making it and then determine
whether more security actions would be required. Might be a much different
situation for passengers with the same request but different appearances.