Filing direct

There was a thread a while ago about filing direct, and the need to include
a fix
for each ARTCC boundary. Just thought I'd give my recent experience. I've
been flying up and down from CA to the North West a bit lately. The V route
from the Seattle area to the Bay Area is a horror. So when I came back from
Medford (ZSE) I just filed direct Point Reyes then the STAR for Palo Alto
(PYE1). I got some vectors for climbing (terrain to the South) then direct
PYE.

This weekend I went to the Seattle area. I filed direct Olympia direct. Once
I'd
been vectored out from under the jets coming into the Bay Area, I got direct
OLM.

This morning returning (from Renton), I filed direct PYE PYE1. My clearance
was SEA J1 BTG then as filed, but I got vectored out of the way of the jets
then direct PYE.

So, between Oakland and Seattle, three out of three. YMMV of course.

John

John Harper wrote:

This morning returning (from Renton), I filed direct PYE PYE1. My clearance
was SEA J1 BTG then as filed, but I got vectored out of the way of the jets
then direct PYE.

J1, huh, you like to fly high and you don't mind the overwater PYE1 arrival?

Just my 2 cents: I've been told by the old Bay Approach that they prefer that you file some nearby VOR before the direct portion of the route, like Salinas if you're going to the southeast, or Manteca to the northeast. I don't know what they prefer to the northwest, though.

By the way, you did include a fix for each ARTCC (I don't think it has to be close to the boundary, just something that the previous ARTCC computer will recognize so it can process the flight plan).

"Fred E. Pate" wrote in message
...
John Harper wrote:

This morning returning (from Renton), I filed direct PYE PYE1. My
clearance
was SEA J1 BTG then as filed, but I got vectored out of the way of the
jets
then direct PYE.

J1, huh, you like to fly high and you don't mind the overwater PYE1
arrival?

First time I've ever been given a J route - quite cool I thought. I was at
FL190
(FL200 flying north). Of course J1 on that leg is identical to V495, so
isn't
exactly a life changing experience.

On PYE1 I always ask for vectors to stay close to land, and they always
oblige
(although just for fun they vectored me AWAY from land today for a minute or
so, but I think
it had a lot to do with the 777 taking off from SFO 28R just behind me).
You're
only out of gliding range of land for a few minutes. Not sure there's a
choice
anyway, I've always been given PYE1 when I DON'T file it, at least if you
file
it you fly direct PYE which saves a minute or two.


Just my 2 cents: I've been told by the old Bay Approach that they prefer
that you file some nearby VOR before the direct portion of the route, like
Salinas if you're going to the southeast, or Manteca to the northeast. I
don't know what they prefer to the northwest, though.

They assigned me that (vectors V334 SAC) on the way out but cleared me
direct
OLM as soon as I was out of the way of the arriving jets. I figure that on
the way
out of a Class B they'll give you what THEY want so you don't achieve much
filing a specific route anyway.


By the way, you did include a fix for each ARTCC (I don't think it has to
be close to the boundary, just something that the previous ARTCC computer
will recognize so it can process the flight plan).


No, that's kind of the point I'm making. I didn't include one and they
didn't
give me one. Of course PYE is kind of a major thing - I've heard on Channel
9 being cleared to it from North Dakota. Not sure if OLM has quite such
cosmic significance though.

OTOH on the way up from LA only the closer ZOA sector has ever given
me direct DOCAL - and I've tried requesting it, to be told ask later.

John

John Harper wrote:

I figure that on the way
out of a Class B they'll give you what THEY want so you don't achieve much
filing a specific route anyway.

Almost. If you're familiar with their practices, though, it sometimes helps to file what you normally get. If you don't they often have to dork around with your flight plan which delays your IFR release (especially when you launch on a long direct-to segment straight from busy airspace). This is what the controller told me.



By the way, you did include a fix for each ARTCC (I don't think it has to
be close to the boundary, just something that the previous ARTCC computer
will recognize so it can process the flight plan).


No, that's kind of the point I'm making. I didn't include one and they didn't
give me one. Of course PYE is kind of a major thing - I've heard on Channel
9 being cleared to it from North Dakota. Not sure if OLM has quite such
cosmic significance though.


Cosmic enough. The ZOA computer recognized it. Otherwise you would have sat on the ground until they put in a fix close to your destination that is in their database.

As far as I understand, the important thing is that each ARTCC computer has to be able to draw a course line through its airspace. So the line has to begin and end at fixes that it recognizes. Otherwise you get a re-route. If you file to/from high-altitude VOR's you should be good to go. And I am guessing that each ARTCC computer recognizes all the VORs and many of the airports in the adjacent center's airspace. So going from Oakland Center to Seattle Center should not require any extra fixes.

In article , Fred E. Pate
wrote:
As far as I understand, the important thing is that each ARTCC computer has
to be able to draw a course line through its airspace. So the line has to
begin and end at fixes that it recognizes. Otherwise you get a re-route. If
you file to/from high-altitude VOR's you should be good to go. And I am
guessing that each ARTCC computer recognizes all the VORs and many of the
airports in the adjacent center's airspace. So going from Oakland Center to
Seattle Center should not require any extra fixes.

Maybe... maybe not.
When I flew from Brunswick GA to West Palm Beach FL last December, I
filed Victor Airways the entire route, including enroute VOR's.
ATC attempted to amend my clearance as soon as I picked it up. I
declined the amendment and received "cleared as filed".
Each controller down the line in succession then tried to get me to
accept an amended clearance, each time I declined. Finally, one of the
JAX sector controllers explained that the computer would not accept my
routing.
The routing they kept trying to get me to accept would have taken me to
an intersection 15 miles offshore northeast of PBI, hence may refusal
to accept. I had deliberately inserted the phrase "no offshore routing
accepted, no floatation gear on board" in the remarks section of my
flight plan.
After refusing the amendment from the MIA controller, she tried to get
to fly a heading (coincidentally, the same as the airway to the
offshore intersection) which I also refused.
I finally did accept a vector from the PBI final approach controller to
parallel the shoreline about one mile offshore as I was being vectored
to final.

EDR wrote:


Maybe... maybe not.

Interesting story. I suppose their offshore route was a preferred route. But why wouldn't the computer take your original planned route? Probably not because it didn't recognize the fixes, but because of traffic flow reasons. Same reason John does the PYE1 arrival over water.

In article , Fred E. Pate
wrote:

EDR wrote:
Maybe... maybe not.

Interesting story. I suppose their offshore route was a preferred route.
But why wouldn't the computer take your original planned route? Probably not
because it didn't recognize the fixes, but because of traffic flow reasons.
Same reason John does the PYE1 arrival over water.

That's my guess. I didn't have access to an AF/D to look it up.

But why wouldn't the computer take your original planned route? Probably not
because it didn't recognize the fixes, but because of traffic flow reasons.
Same reason John does the PYE1 arrival over water.

I fly V3 which is the prefered. Leaving KLNA I open my flight plan with PBI.
Always get a few vectors east or west. Maybe 1 mile off shore. Then intercept
V3 and as filed.
Hank N1441P

I fly IFR out of Palo Alto and have never heard of the PYE1 arrival.
Where can I find it? Is it a high altitude thing? It doesn't seem to
be in the PAO section of my plates. Just curious.

greg

"John Harper" wrote in message news:1065480517.160531@sj-nntpcache-5...
There was a thread a while ago about filing direct, and the need to include
a fix
for each ARTCC boundary. Just thought I'd give my recent experience. I've
been flying up and down from CA to the North West a bit lately. The V route
from the Seattle area to the Bay Area is a horror. So when I came back from
Medford (ZSE) I just filed direct Point Reyes then the STAR for Palo Alto
(PYE1). I got some vectors for climbing (terrain to the South) then direct
PYE.

This weekend I went to the Seattle area. I filed direct Olympia direct. Once
I'd
been vectored out from under the jets coming into the Bay Area, I got direct
OLM.

This morning returning (from Renton), I filed direct PYE PYE1. My clearance
was SEA J1 BTG then as filed, but I got vectored out of the way of the jets
then direct PYE.

So, between Oakland and Seattle, three out of three. YMMV of course.

John

Aha! Great catch question. It's actually a SJC arrival, you mean you
didn't think to look there? There's a note somewhere on the back of
the (Jepp) plate that tells you to look under SJC for arrival. (My
instructor pulled this one on me when I was training, so fortunately I
was prepared).

John

"Greg" wrote in message
om...
I fly IFR out of Palo Alto and have never heard of the PYE1 arrival.
Where can I find it? Is it a high altitude thing? It doesn't seem to
be in the PAO section of my plates. Just curious.

greg

"John Harper" wrote in message
news:1065480517.160531@sj-nntpcache-5...
There was a thread a while ago about filing direct, and the need to
include
a fix
for each ARTCC boundary. Just thought I'd give my recent experience.
I've
been flying up and down from CA to the North West a bit lately. The V
route
from the Seattle area to the Bay Area is a horror. So when I came back
from
Medford (ZSE) I just filed direct Point Reyes then the STAR for Palo
Alto
(PYE1). I got some vectors for climbing (terrain to the South) then
direct
PYE.

This weekend I went to the Seattle area. I filed direct Olympia direct.
Once
I'd
been vectored out from under the jets coming into the Bay Area, I got
direct
OLM.

This morning returning (from Renton), I filed direct PYE PYE1. My
clearance
was SEA J1 BTG then as filed, but I got vectored out of the way of the
jets
then direct PYE.

So, between Oakland and Seattle, three out of three. YMMV of course.

John