behind closed doors

to tom seim.. your points are on the mark. The issue of "behind closed doors " is crucial and a root cause of the current problem.

Today and tomorrow the board, Which has already announced its intention of resigning ( at least the chair and excom) is meeting to " address the issues" ( per 9-25 note). They announced that they have hired a replacement cfo. They have BORROWED a significant amount of money from the trust fund. They are silent on the issue of seeking reimbursement from insurance company.

and much more..

Basically, a LAME DUCK ( by her own satement) chair is leading an effort to address issues ( which i take to mean to make decisions) which will probably restructure the SSA. The problem is major, so the decisions will probably have to be major. The decision to borrow from the trust was a major decision.

I believe that it is not only arrogant, but improper for this board to make any decisions that will bind the society at this time.

A very thin case could be made for them meeting to discuss and to identify possibly courses of actions and restructuring alternatives for presentation to the membership.

BUT NOT TO MAKE BINDING RESTRUCTURING DECISIONS which could be tainted by conflict of interest .

The fact that they announced the hiring of a new cfo is a perfect example. The SSA now PROBABLY ( depending upon the terms of his employement contract) has an obligation to this guy which will bind us in the future.. This board DECIDED that the model going forward requires a cfo.. DOES IT REALLY???
is there another business model that could be implimented that would save the 100k or so that this guy will cost us each year??? did they consider outsourcing seriously???
were alternatives presented to members for discussion and approval??

The board had several options when confronted with the problem. They chose to "manage" the problem in closed session and to make important policy decisions on our behalf. This board is tainted by past bad judgement, in conflict and, in my opinion, should not be making decisions that bind the ssa into the future. Especially in a hurry and behind closed doors.
What was the behind closed doors reasoning behind hiring an attorney suggested by the accountants who were a part of this situation? why did the board not hire an impartial auditor to do the forensic accounting? To save money?? that sounds like familar reasoning..

What i believe is that we really have a large group of well intentioned volunteer directors who are geographically distant from one another and from the action. What i believe is that the excom is working on something which they will present for approval to the rest of the board. A closed meeting, that preceeds a closed meeting. This MAY be ok when things are running smoothly, but is absolutly NOT OK during a period of trauma which demands major changes that will impact the membership.

If the board wanted to hire a new CFO, why wasn't an e-mail sent to the
membership looking for candidates?

Mike Schumann

"5-BG" 5-bghatesspam @ fake.com wrote in message
...
to tom seim.. your points are on the mark. The issue of "behind closed doors
" is crucial and a root cause of the current problem.

Today and tomorrow the board, Which has already announced its intention
of resigning ( at least the chair and excom) is meeting to " address the
issues" ( per 9-25 note). They announced that they have hired a replacement
cfo. They have BORROWED a significant amount of money from the trust fund.
They are silent on the issue of seeking reimbursement from insurance
company.

and much more..

Basically, a LAME DUCK ( by her own satement) chair is leading an effort
to address issues ( which i take to mean to make decisions) which will
probably restructure the SSA. The problem is major, so the decisions will
probably have to be major. The decision to borrow from the trust was a major
decision.

I believe that it is not only arrogant, but improper for this board to
make any decisions that will bind the society at this time.

A very thin case could be made for them meeting to discuss and to identify
possibly courses of actions and restructuring alternatives for presentation
to the membership.

BUT NOT TO MAKE BINDING RESTRUCTURING DECISIONS which could be tainted by
conflict of interest .

The fact that they announced the hiring of a new cfo is a perfect example.
The SSA now PROBABLY ( depending upon the terms of his employement contract)
has an obligation to this guy which will bind us in the future.. This board
DECIDED that the model going forward requires a cfo.. DOES IT REALLY???
is there another business model that could be implimented that would save
the 100k or so that this guy will cost us each year??? did they consider
outsourcing seriously???
were alternatives presented to members for discussion and approval??

The board had several options when confronted with the problem. They
chose to "manage" the problem in closed session and to make important policy
decisions on our behalf. This board is tainted by past bad judgement, in
conflict and, in my opinion, should not be making decisions that bind the
ssa into the future. Especially in a hurry and behind closed doors.
What was the behind closed doors reasoning behind hiring an attorney
suggested by the accountants who were a part of this situation? why did the
board not hire an impartial auditor to do the forensic accounting? To save
money?? that sounds like familar reasoning..

What i believe is that we really have a large group of well intentioned
volunteer directors who are geographically distant from one another and
from the action. What i believe is that the excom is working on something
which they will present for approval to the rest of the board. A closed
meeting, that preceeds a closed meeting. This MAY be ok when things are
running smoothly, but is absolutly NOT OK during a period of trauma which
demands major changes that will impact the membership.

Not only is it behind closed doors, it's behind our backs!
Hiring a new person before resolving the present problems seems premature at
best and not publishing their (the board's) intent to do so is just another
demonstration of their arrogant disregard of the interests of and input from
the membership. I was willing to wait to see if there was a change in
attitude toward regarding open communication with the members on the part of
the board but this surely is beginning to this look like it's going the same
way as "Sanderson" and "Computer purchase". We will never get the full and
complete story. I am truly disappointed.


"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
ink.net...
If the board wanted to hire a new CFO, why wasn't an e-mail sent to the
membership looking for candidates?

Mike Schumann

"5-BG" 5-bghatesspam @ fake.com wrote in message
...
to tom seim.. your points are on the mark. The issue of "behind closed
doors
" is crucial and a root cause of the current problem.

Today and tomorrow the board, Which has already announced its intention
of resigning ( at least the chair and excom) is meeting to " address the
issues" ( per 9-25 note). They announced that they have hired a
replacement
cfo. They have BORROWED a significant amount of money from the trust fund.
They are silent on the issue of seeking reimbursement from insurance
company.

and much more..

Basically, a LAME DUCK ( by her own satement) chair is leading an
effort
to address issues ( which i take to mean to make decisions) which will
probably restructure the SSA. The problem is major, so the decisions will
probably have to be major. The decision to borrow from the trust was a
major
decision.

I believe that it is not only arrogant, but improper for this board to
make any decisions that will bind the society at this time.

A very thin case could be made for them meeting to discuss and to
identify
possibly courses of actions and restructuring alternatives for
presentation
to the membership.

BUT NOT TO MAKE BINDING RESTRUCTURING DECISIONS which could be tainted by
conflict of interest .

The fact that they announced the hiring of a new cfo is a perfect
example.
The SSA now PROBABLY ( depending upon the terms of his employement
contract)
has an obligation to this guy which will bind us in the future.. This
board
DECIDED that the model going forward requires a cfo.. DOES IT REALLY???
is there another business model that could be implimented that would save
the 100k or so that this guy will cost us each year??? did they consider
outsourcing seriously???
were alternatives presented to members for discussion and approval??

The board had several options when confronted with the problem. They
chose to "manage" the problem in closed session and to make important
policy
decisions on our behalf. This board is tainted by past bad judgement, in
conflict and, in my opinion, should not be making decisions that bind the
ssa into the future. Especially in a hurry and behind closed doors.
What was the behind closed doors reasoning behind hiring an attorney
suggested by the accountants who were a part of this situation? why did
the
board not hire an impartial auditor to do the forensic accounting? To save
money?? that sounds like familar reasoning..

What i believe is that we really have a large group of well intentioned
volunteer directors who are geographically distant from one another and
from the action. What i believe is that the excom is working on something
which they will present for approval to the rest of the board. A closed
meeting, that preceeds a closed meeting. This MAY be ok when things are
running smoothly, but is absolutly NOT OK during a period of trauma which
demands major changes that will impact the membership.

5-BG wrote:
The issue of "behind closed doors " is crucial and a root cause of the
current problem.


To 5-BG: I'll be in ABQ observing the SSA Board meeting. I can relay
your suggestions.

5-BG, what is your name and who is your SSA Regional Director?

Burt Compton
Marfa, TX

Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
5-BG wrote:
The issue of "behind closed doors " is crucial and a root cause of the
current problem.


To 5-BG: I'll be in ABQ observing the SSA Board meeting. I can relay
your suggestions.

5-BG, what is your name and who is your SSA Regional Director?

Burt Compton
Marfa, TX

To Burt, Tony and those that sign their names to their postings .....I
appreciate you being able to stand behind your posts and be reasonable.
If we require the SSA board to be open and honest, then we should at
the very least expect the same of ourselves.

Anyway, I only have 2 points to make :

EVERYONE who is a member of SSA can attend ANY board meeting. The only
proviso to that is that you don't have a vote unless you are a board
member. There are NO CLOSED doors. If you want, you can go to ANY
board meeting as a member of the SSA. I am on several boards of
registered non-profit associations, and I have NEVER seen any
indiciation that board meetings have ever been closed to the
association membership, and the SSA is no exception. I myself wanted
and planned on going to the board meeting in ALB this weekend, and was
only kept at home by a family need. I am not a board member, and know
that I was welcome to listen and know everything as an SSA member.

Also, I have (as most of the other members of the SSA) worked for many
Fortune 500 (for profit) organizations, and when you have a "accounting
Fraud" situation arise, you must IMMEDIATELY bring in someone to find
out what the true situation is (usually forensic accountants) which the
SSA did...and the next step you perform as a matter of standard
business practice is hire someone IMMEDIATELY to act on the
recommendations of the forensic accountant, the CPA on record, and to
establish the amount of the loss (whether you file or insurance or
not). Seems to me that all other questions aside, that the SSA board
has performed rather well in this emergency. There is NO REQUIREMENT
that the board had to tell anyone about what they found out or
suspected. NO REQUIREMENT, yet, like all other members of the SSA, I
read the message to members on the website, read my e-news, and read
the RAS postings. As to the fallout, that remains to be seen only
after the new Accountants determine what the true situation is. All of
us know thast within our own financial dealings, that by the time you
get statements of the actual cash that made the bank, there are a
myriad of different things that could have happened to the money on the
way to the bank, and you wouldn't be aware of the situation until a
month or two afterwards. Yes, I knew over two years ago that the 990's
weren't filed. (I found out by accident by doing some research on
writing grants), and found out that not filing the 990's is a common
practice among MANY non-profits. The Federal government already states
in the on-line database, that there is a 7 month delay in even getting
them filed, from the time that the IRS gets the reports in their own
door. The filing of the reports are the LEAST of the issues facing the
SSA board, and the easiest remedied.

Anyway, I guess I just broke my record of being a lurker, but I am
really tired of people complaining about closed doors and not being
correct in their assumptions that they can't get off their collective
duffs, and DO something, like do their research, and read the minutes,
and review the financial statements for yourself....or at the very
least contact your regional director and merely ASK the qustions. That
is exactly what they are there for, and YOU/WE elected them. There is
a forum for communication set up within the SSA, only some people
choose not to use it, and prefer to remain nameless as they
"yammer"....thanks for letting me vent. Micki

MM,
Regarding the hiring of a new CFO, if what you say is true, I stand
corrected, and I did get a timely response regarding an e-mail to my
director. Still, based on past experiences, I remain somewhat cynical. Time
will tell whether it is justified.
Cheers to all!

"MickiMinner" wrote in message
oups.com...
To Burt, Tony and those that sign their names to their postings .....I
appreciate you being able to stand behind your posts and be reasonable.
If we require the SSA board to be open and honest, then we should at
the very least expect the same of ourselves.

Anyway, I only have 2 points to make :

EVERYONE who is a member of SSA can attend ANY board meeting. The only
proviso to that is that you don't have a vote unless you are a board
member. There are NO CLOSED doors. If you want, you can go to ANY
board meeting as a member of the SSA. I am on several boards of
registered non-profit associations, and I have NEVER seen any
indiciation that board meetings have ever been closed to the
association membership, and the SSA is no exception. I myself wanted
and planned on going to the board meeting in ALB this weekend, and was
only kept at home by a family need. I am not a board member, and know
that I was welcome to listen and know everything as an SSA member.

Also, I have (as most of the other members of the SSA) worked for many
Fortune 500 (for profit) organizations, and when you have a "accounting
Fraud" situation arise, you must IMMEDIATELY bring in someone to find
out what the true situation is (usually forensic accountants) which the
SSA did...and the next step you perform as a matter of standard
business practice is hire someone IMMEDIATELY to act on the
recommendations of the forensic accountant, the CPA on record, and to
establish the amount of the loss (whether you file or insurance or
not). Seems to me that all other questions aside, that the SSA board
has performed rather well in this emergency. There is NO REQUIREMENT
that the board had to tell anyone about what they found out or
suspected. NO REQUIREMENT, yet, like all other members of the SSA, I
read the message to members on the website, read my e-news, and read
the RAS postings. As to the fallout, that remains to be seen only
after the new Accountants determine what the true situation is. All of
us know thast within our own financial dealings, that by the time you
get statements of the actual cash that made the bank, there are a
myriad of different things that could have happened to the money on the
way to the bank, and you wouldn't be aware of the situation until a
month or two afterwards. Yes, I knew over two years ago that the 990's
weren't filed. (I found out by accident by doing some research on
writing grants), and found out that not filing the 990's is a common
practice among MANY non-profits. The Federal government already states
in the on-line database, that there is a 7 month delay in even getting
them filed, from the time that the IRS gets the reports in their own
door. The filing of the reports are the LEAST of the issues facing the
SSA board, and the easiest remedied.

Anyway, I guess I just broke my record of being a lurker, but I am
really tired of people complaining about closed doors and not being
correct in their assumptions that they can't get off their collective
duffs, and DO something, like do their research, and read the minutes,
and review the financial statements for yourself....or at the very
least contact your regional director and merely ASK the qustions. That
is exactly what they are there for, and YOU/WE elected them. There is
a forum for communication set up within the SSA, only some people
choose not to use it, and prefer to remain nameless as they
"yammer"....thanks for letting me vent. Micki

One of my directors invited me to attend this board meeting and I'd
planned to, in addition to the Barnaby Lecture and dinner. However, a
wedding here tomorrow got in the way of that plan. Members are
excluded during executive sessions only. Hopefully a few of the local
soaring community are attending both.

Frank Whiteley


MickiMinner wrote:
To Burt, Tony and those that sign their names to their postings .....I
appreciate you being able to stand behind your posts and be reasonable.
If we require the SSA board to be open and honest, then we should at
the very least expect the same of ourselves.

Anyway, I only have 2 points to make :

EVERYONE who is a member of SSA can attend ANY board meeting. The only
proviso to that is that you don't have a vote unless you are a board
member. There are NO CLOSED doors. If you want, you can go to ANY
board meeting as a member of the SSA. I am on several boards of
registered non-profit associations, and I have NEVER seen any
indiciation that board meetings have ever been closed to the
association membership, and the SSA is no exception. I myself wanted
and planned on going to the board meeting in ALB this weekend, and was
only kept at home by a family need. I am not a board member, and know
that I was welcome to listen and know everything as an SSA member.

Also, I have (as most of the other members of the SSA) worked for many
Fortune 500 (for profit) organizations, and when you have a "accounting
Fraud" situation arise, you must IMMEDIATELY bring in someone to find
out what the true situation is (usually forensic accountants) which the
SSA did...and the next step you perform as a matter of standard
business practice is hire someone IMMEDIATELY to act on the
recommendations of the forensic accountant, the CPA on record, and to
establish the amount of the loss (whether you file or insurance or
not). Seems to me that all other questions aside, that the SSA board
has performed rather well in this emergency. There is NO REQUIREMENT
that the board had to tell anyone about what they found out or
suspected. NO REQUIREMENT, yet, like all other members of the SSA, I
read the message to members on the website, read my e-news, and read
the RAS postings. As to the fallout, that remains to be seen only
after the new Accountants determine what the true situation is. All of
us know thast within our own financial dealings, that by the time you
get statements of the actual cash that made the bank, there are a
myriad of different things that could have happened to the money on the
way to the bank, and you wouldn't be aware of the situation until a
month or two afterwards. Yes, I knew over two years ago that the 990's
weren't filed. (I found out by accident by doing some research on
writing grants), and found out that not filing the 990's is a common
practice among MANY non-profits. The Federal government already states
in the on-line database, that there is a 7 month delay in even getting
them filed, from the time that the IRS gets the reports in their own
door. The filing of the reports are the LEAST of the issues facing the
SSA board, and the easiest remedied.

Anyway, I guess I just broke my record of being a lurker, but I am
really tired of people complaining about closed doors and not being
correct in their assumptions that they can't get off their collective
duffs, and DO something, like do their research, and read the minutes,
and review the financial statements for yourself....or at the very
least contact your regional director and merely ASK the qustions. That
is exactly what they are there for, and YOU/WE elected them. There is
a forum for communication set up within the SSA, only some people
choose not to use it, and prefer to remain nameless as they
"yammer"....thanks for letting me vent. Micki

In nine years on the Board, I recall perhaps half a dozen SSA members
who attended meetings. I'm not one of those who says "if you don't like
what the directors are doing, run for the Board yourself." That's
certainly an option (and one I and others elected) but SSA members
shouldn't have to take drastic action to get decent representation. But
you don't have to be a director to attend the meetings although this
may not have been widely known.

Board meetings are held every six months in varying locations across
the country and I guarantee it would be an educational experience for
members--albeit pretty boring for those expecting sensational power
plays. I understand at least one SSA member (and several directors)
attended most of the ExComm meeting yesterday and more members were
expected today at the full Board meeting. I'm sure I speak for many in
saying I await news from this weekend's deliberations with keen
anticipation. Initial reports I got were promising.

I encourage all SSA members to keep the pressure on in terms of
independent oversight and frequent updates and, of course, good
decisions but, in exchange, to offer their unwavering support to the
Board and other volunteers and staff in turning this situation around.
As I've said several times before, this disaster can mark the beginning
of a new, much brighter era for soaring in the U.S.

Chip Bearden