How do we inspire pilots to truly take up cross country soaring ?

Some random thoughts.
Our club has a briefing every day that covers weather, Notams etc. but
also briefs inexperienced pilots on cross country. This might be a task
with several turning points within gliding distance of the home airfield,
up to a 500k task for diamond distance.

We also have the "Compass" scheme where an experienced cross
country pilot will fly with you a high performance 2 seater. You can
learn a lot flying with an ex world champion in a Nimbus 3dt!.

The club culture is cross country orientated. Three weeks ago we had
over 80 club gliders on a club grid to fly cross country (on top of
normal training flights) We do field landing practice in a Faulke motor
glider that allows an instructor to put the pupil in a situation such as
"OK we have run out of lift choose a suitable field an set up a circuit to

land".
Fear of outlandings.
Once a year one of our members who is a farmer invites the club to
use one of his fields for outlanding practice. We take a 2 seater and
tug and do training flights with the altimeter obscured. This
encourages circuit planning and approaches in a strange environment.

Being a club it is quite a sociable environment. I was sat at a table
outside the club house the other day nattering to some cadets, some
members in their 80s still flying vintage gliders, some low hours cross
country pilots (like myself,) and 2 world champions! It is great to learn
from such wide ranging experiences.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 17:17:46 -0700, unclhank wrote:

Unless there has been a change that I am not aware of, one can declare a
remote start point, fly to a remote finish. and return to the home base.

Yes, of course. A Silver distance can be done as you describe *provided
that* it has a 50km leg, which is all that counts for Silver.

I thought the post I replied to could be read as if flying a closed task
totalling 50km would count as Silver Distance but it would not.

Altitude loss is calculated from release height to height at finish
point. The task some of our folks have done for this turns out to
require about a 130k flight which seems about right if one is flying
modern glass.

Too true. The prospective Silver Badge holder should read the rulebook
before planning any of the three elements, but always remebering that the
Silver C can be and has been completed in one flight!


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:39:42 -0700, Dan Daly wrote:

Martin, the 100 km Diploma is not recognized in North America.

Thanks for the clarification. I think its a useful sized task for a
fledging XC pilot, so its something that a club might want to use.

My club has a 109km triangle with easily recognised TPs and a 200km O/R
which both have annually awarded cups. Both are into the prevailing wind
from our field and both are commonly used by early XC pilots.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 7:18:45 AM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:39:42 -0700, Dan Daly wrote:

Martin, the 100 km Diploma is not recognized in North America.

Thanks for the clarification. I think its a useful sized task for a
fledging XC pilot, so its something that a club might want to use.

My club has a 109km triangle with easily recognised TPs and a 200km O/R
which both have annually awarded cups. Both are into the prevailing wind
from our field and both are commonly used by early XC pilots.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

For a few airports/groups in Eastern PA, North NJ & southern NY, we have:

http://gcup.tophatsoaring.org/GCUP/gc_home.php
Basic rules.... http://gcup.tophatsoaring.org/GCUP/gc_rules.php
North flights... http://gcup.tophatsoaring.org/scorin...scoresheet.xml
South flights.... http://gcup.tophatsoaring.org/scorin...scoresheet.xml
Flight comments..... http://gcup.tophatsoaring.org/GCUP/gc_flights.php .... use the arrow button to see comments from previous days...

This is good, lots of places to land, tend to fly in groups, add's a "bit of competition" between different groups/airports (we fly for individual points as well as group points).

As to "competition training", years ago in our region, we had a "little guys meet". It was divided into "silver" & "gold" based on experience of the pilot & sailplane performance.
It was 2 weekends in a row, had a briefing in the morning, turnpoints, cameras (yes, a long time ago), landing cards, etc., just like a real contest.
The difference was that it was mostly for fun (no national ranking points) but had everything a real contest did.

The other "training" was to crew for a number of contests. You did everything a pilot did (except fly) so you went to meetings/briefs, rigged, loaded cameras, discussed the days potential, gridded, launched, kept tabs on "your pilot", info submittal at the end of the day or retrieves.
This meant you had some exposure to the "contest workings" before having to fly the course.

Yes, I crewed for ~7 years (regionals & nationals) with 2+ contests/year and also flew the "little guys" contest a few times.

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 6:21:16 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:

A highly respected CFI-G says "I NEVER want to land out" (to budding pilots gathered around the picnic table). "That's just dumb. Why would you get off tow below 1500 AGL? Why take that risk?"

I've overheard this and worse many times. In one case the CFI-G pointed at a respected contest pilot and said, "Competition flying and XC is just insane."

It made me furious. I wanted to order him to get a Diamond Badge before his next renewal or find another line of work.

One big glaring issue I see in regards to encouraging XC is that a short cross country not a requirement of glider flight training?

If we let students get their "glider rating" by purely flying within gliding range of the airport, we unsurprisingly get a large portion of "rated" glider pilots who never venture outside of gliding range of the airport. This is really no surprise, is it?

"Train how you fight, fight how you train..."

If students (and their instructors), as part of their training, never have to truly think about, plan or execute XC skills we are setting them up for XC failure. More importantly, our CFIGs can happily exists as CFIGs without any skill, experience or desire for cross country flight! You can get a CFIG rating and keep it today without ever having ventured outside of "gliding range" of the airport! In fact, many openly discourage XC flight as irresponsible, etc. The same goes for most FAA glider "examiners(?)." This is incredible to me and frustrating to many of us.

Many (most?) glider "instructors" simply never learn XC skills and therefore never really teach (or meaningfully encourage it). They often don't have a great LOVE for cross country. Many see glider flight only close to the airport as normal and how it "should" be. Obviously, these glider "instructors" are not the greatest "spark-plugs" for preparing new glider pilots to get into the more advanced levels of the sport of soaring (XC). In certain cases they are "allowed" to actively discourage developing cross country skills (that's dangerous, etc). They know who they are.

This broken dynamic is a major problem that we face with soaring today. It is at least part of the reason why we are seeing fewer new pilots joining us on cross country's.

If I was "King" ;-) I would fundamentally change this FAA glider instruction dynamic.

1) Students would have to plan for and complete a short 50km cross country as part of the flight training process. Instructors would have to truly teach this XC skill, and help the student practice it! This short XC would be a required element. The student would not have to do this solo. Waivers for instruction in difficult terrain (why get flight training here?) or poor weather (why get holder training in the winter?) would be allowed, but in general it would be an important highlight of the glider flight training experience (vs something that is just glanced over). Just like the long cross country is a highlight of a private power rating, the XC element of the glider rating would be the most memorable (and inspirational) for the student! If I remember correctly the long cross country (power) is done both with an instructor and solo! Why is this not at least a requirement with the instructor with gliders? Even a 20 km cross country would be better than nothing.

2) CFIGs would need to compete a 100km cross country (with a student or solo) every 2 years to remain current. This would need to be verified like a silver badge with witnesses, etc. Period! No exceptions. You either love the sport of soaring (XC) and are competent at it OR you are not. We need CFIGs to be embasadors for cross country soaring and truly love it. Don't tell me...SHOW ME! Prove it.

3) FAA examiners would also need to have a 100km cross country every 2 years. They need to be able to evaluate the students ability to understand cross country soaring in the oral examination. Without some minimum cross country experience themselves, this is a total pushover.

I'll retreat to my bunker for the fallout this post will create! ;-). But I have to say we need some changes in this area of the sport.

Sean

As a newbie I was encouraged to fly in the TSA (Texas Soaring
Association) Labor Day lap races in Sports Class. On the practice day,
I was a couple of miles outbound when a woman who'd started with me was
finishing! After I landed, I asked her how she flew so fast. She told
me not to circle so much.

The first race day was a small triangle with a 50+ KM leg so I declared
a Silver Distance and was careful to take pictures for both the turn
points and for the badge leg. The quadrants were different! I achieved
the badge leg and, in fact, took first place in Sports. One more tug on
the line which set the hook even deeper.

On 8/19/2015 5:10 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 17:17:46 -0700, unclhank wrote:

Unless there has been a change that I am not aware of, one can declare a
remote start point, fly to a remote finish. and return to the home base.

Yes, of course. A Silver distance can be done as you describe *provided
that* it has a 50km leg, which is all that counts for Silver.

I thought the post I replied to could be read as if flying a closed task
totalling 50km would count as Silver Distance but it would not.

Altitude loss is calculated from release height to height at finish
point. The task some of our folks have done for this turns out to
require about a 130k flight which seems about right if one is flying
modern glass.

Too true. The prospective Silver Badge holder should read the rulebook
before planning any of the three elements, but always remebering that the
Silver C can be and has been completed in one flight!



--
Dan Marotta

One big glaring issue I see in regards to encouraging XC is that a short cross country flight is not a requirement for earning a glider private rating (or a commercial rating for that matter)?

If we let students earn their "glider rating" purely by flying within gliding range of the airport, we unsurprisingly get a large portion of "rated" glider pilots who become very comfortable not venturing outside of gliding range of the airport. This is really no surprise, is it?

"Train how you fight, fight how you train..."

If students (and their instructors), as part of their training, never have to truly think about, plan or execute XC skills are we not setting them up for XC failure? More importantly, our CFIGs can happily exists as CFIGs without any skill, experience or desire for cross country flight! You can get a CFIG rating and keep it today without ever having ventured outside of "gliding range" of the airport! In fact, many CFIGs openly discourage XC flight as irresponsible, etc. Land outs are bad...mmm-Kay! The same goes for most FAA glider "examiners(?)." This is incredible to me and probably a little frustrating to many of us.

Many (most?, but not all!) glider "instructors" simply never learn XC skills and therefore never really teach it (or meaningfully encourage it). They often don't have a great LOVE for cross country. They often don't understand it. Many see glider flight close to the airport as normal and how it "should" be. Many are not passionate about moving their students towards cross country. Obviously, these glider "instructors" are not the greatest "spark-plugs" for preparing new glider pilots to get into the more advanced levels of the sport of soaring (XC). In certain cases they are "allowed" to actively discourage developing cross country skills (that's dangerous, etc). They know who they are.

This broken dynamic is a major problem that we face with soaring today. It is at least part of the reason why we are seeing fewer new pilots joining us on cross country's.

If I was "king" ;-) I would fundamentally change this FAA glider instruction dynamic.

1) Students would have to plan for and complete a short 50km cross country as part of the flight training process. Instructors would have to truly teach this XC skill, and help the student practice it! This short XC would be a required element. The student would not have to do this solo. Waivers for instruction in difficult terrain (why get flight training here?) or poor weather (why get glider training in the winter?) would be allowed, but in general XC would be an important highlight of the glider flight training experience (vs something that is just glanced over). Just like the long cross country is a highlight of a private power rating, the XC element of the glider rating would be the most memorable (and inspirational) for the student! If I remember correctly the long cross country (power) is done both with an instructor and solo! Why is this short XC not at least a requirement with the instructor with gliders? It makes no sense to me. Even a 20 km cross country would be better than nothing.

2) CFIGs would need to compete a 100km cross country (with a student or solo) every 2 years to remain current. This would need to be verified like a silver badge is today with witnesses, etc. Period! No exceptions. You either love the sport of soaring (XC) and are competent at it OR you are not. We need CFIGs to be ambassadors for cross country soaring and truly love it. Don't tell me...SHOW ME! Prove it.

3) FAA examiners would also need to have a 100km cross country every 2 years. They need to be able to evaluate the students ability to understand cross country soaring in the oral examination. Without some minimum cross country experience themselves, this is a total pushover.

I'll retreat to my bunker for the fallout this post will create! ;-). But I have to say we need some changes in this area of the sport.

Sean

You're very lucky to have had the support of a big club. Our club is smaller, and there's only a handful of us that fly X/C at the moment.

There's nothing else as convincing for showing you it's possible as other's doing it. The OLC is nice for this too, but in-person same-day is more fun..

I was a couple of miles outbound when a woman who'd started
with me was finishing!* After I landed, I asked her how she flew so
fast.* She told me not to circle so much.

You mean... a "female"? Awesome.

-- the other "Sarah A" in MN


On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 9:33:20 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
As a newbie I was encouraged to fly in the TSA (Texas Soaring
Association) Labor Day lap races in Sports Class.* On the practice
day, I was a couple of miles outbound when a woman who'd started
with me was finishing!* After I landed, I asked her how she flew so
fast.* She told me not to circle so much.



The first race day was a small triangle with a 50+ KM leg so I
declared a Silver Distance and was careful to take pictures for both
the turn points and for the badge leg.* The quadrants were
different!* I achieved the badge leg and, in fact, took first place
in Sports.* One more tug on the line which set the hook even deeper..




On 8/19/2015 5:10 AM, Martin Gregorie
wrote:



On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 17:17:46 -0700, unclhank wrote:



Unless there has been a change that I am not aware of, one can declare a
remote start point, fly to a remote finish. and return to the home base.



Yes, of course. A Silver distance can be done as you describe *provided
that* it has a 50km leg, which is all that counts for Silver.

I thought the post I replied to could be read as if flying a closed task
totalling 50km would count as Silver Distance but it would not.



Altitude loss is calculated from release height to height at finish
point. The task some of our folks have done for this turns out to
require about a 130k flight which seems about right if one is flying
modern glass.



Too true. The prospective Silver Badge holder should read the rulebook
before planning any of the three elements, but always remebering that the
Silver C can be and has been completed in one flight!







--

Dan Marotta

Yes, a female. Sharon Smith. I wonder if she's still flying.

On 8/19/2015 8:43 AM, Sarah wrote:
You're very lucky to have had the support of a big club. Our club is smaller, and there's only a handful of us that fly X/C at the moment.

There's nothing else as convincing for showing you it's possible as other's doing it. The OLC is nice for this too, but in-person same-day is more fun.

I was a couple of miles outbound when a woman who'd started
with me was finishing! After I landed, I asked her how she flew so
fast. She told me not to circle so much.
You mean... a "female"? Awesome.

-- the other "Sarah A" in MN


On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 9:33:20 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
As a newbie I was encouraged to fly in the TSA (Texas Soaring
Association) Labor Day lap races in Sports Class. On the practice
day, I was a couple of miles outbound when a woman who'd started
with me was finishing! After I landed, I asked her how she flew so
fast. She told me not to circle so much.



The first race day was a small triangle with a 50+ KM leg so I
declared a Silver Distance and was careful to take pictures for both
the turn points and for the badge leg. The quadrants were
different! I achieved the badge leg and, in fact, took first place
in Sports. One more tug on the line which set the hook even deeper.




On 8/19/2015 5:10 AM, Martin Gregorie
wrote:



On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 17:17:46 -0700, unclhank wrote:



Unless there has been a change that I am not aware of, one can declare a
remote start point, fly to a remote finish. and return to the home base.



Yes, of course. A Silver distance can be done as you describe *provided
that* it has a 50km leg, which is all that counts for Silver.

I thought the post I replied to could be read as if flying a closed task
totalling 50km would count as Silver Distance but it would not.



Altitude loss is calculated from release height to height at finish
point. The task some of our folks have done for this turns out to
require about a 130k flight which seems about right if one is flying
modern glass.



Too true. The prospective Silver Badge holder should read the rulebook
before planning any of the three elements, but always remebering that the
Silver C can be and has been completed in one flight!







--

Dan Marotta

--
Dan Marotta