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More info on GNS 430/530 WAAS upgrade



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 22nd 05, 02:41 PM
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"Peter R." wrote:

wrote:

Another big "if" is whether WAAS and LPV will be around 5 years from now.


Now this speculation is something I never read before. What would be the
reason for the demise of this technology, assuming it does not survive the
next several years?


The primary GPS system is operated by the military and has huge benefits for them. It
also has huge benefits to much of the population beyond the military and beyond
aviation. The incremential cost to operate the system for all civil users is zero.
The system is useful through the entire world.

WAAS, OTOH, is a United States system funded and operated by the FAA. It is only
useful in the United States and some nearby areas. It is a different implementation of
GPS augmentation protocol than proposed by a few other countries.

WAAS functions through transponders rented by the FAA on commercial satellites, plus
several expensive ground stations. The operating costs are in the hundreds of millions
of dollars a year. The system is being used by a very small part of general aviation.
Most air carrier and biz jets have no need for WAAS at all, plus it dies as soon as
they fly off shore.

The bean counters at the FAA have trouble keep justifying this huge annual expense for
very little benefit.

  #12  
Old June 22nd 05, 02:49 PM
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PPT33R wrote:

I can't see that happening, especially when RNP is being deployed
commercially. Boeing & Airbus are now certifying their newer airframes
for RNP .1, which allegedly integrates GPS, INS, and DME into the FMS.
The GPS portion requires RAIM and is much more reliable with WAAS.

TIS, on the other hand, is a whole other issue...


I am involved in the work being done with RNP. WAAS is not part of the
calculus at all in the FMS sensor hierarcy for RNP_SAAAR instrument
approach procedures. RNP 0.10 is acheived through complex interfaces of
FMS software with GPS as the primary sensor. WAAS is not used. The most
robust platforms (dual-thread aircraft, which will be a requirement where
RNP is needed for the missed approach, use blended, updated IRU position
along with GPS (or without GPS for a reasonable period of time in the
event GPS suddently fails).

WAAS's primary benefit is to provide the LPV glide-path for the LPV final
approach segment. The RNP_SAAAR criteria's final approach segment
glide-path is predicated on IFR-certified Baro VNAV.

As an aside, when the FAA commissioned WAAS, they "dumbed down" the Baro
VNAV criteria for public RNAV (GPS) IAPs, which increased existing VNAV
minimums. This was a blatent political move to make LPV minimums look
better.

The assessment concets for the VNAV obstacle clearance surfaces in the
RNP_SAAAR environment rightfully do an end-run around the dumbing down of
public VNAV obstacle clearance criteria.


  #13  
Old June 22nd 05, 02:50 PM
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PPT33R wrote:

You have to place the order, but the Garmin rep told me they won't
charge you until they ship.

The other issue I have is the initial demand will be very high, so
expect to be without your box for a couple months or more. How will I
be compensated for my aircraft down-time whilst my 530 is off at Garmin?


Did Garmin promise an eventual upgrade to WAAS when you bought your 530?


  #14  
Old June 22nd 05, 03:33 PM
Richard Kaplan
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Did Garmin promise an eventual upgrade to WAAS when you bought your 530?


Yes


  #15  
Old June 22nd 05, 03:33 PM
Richard Kaplan
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wrote in message ...

Another big "if" is whether WAAS and LPV will be around 5 years from now.



What makes you think it will not?

--------------------
Richard Kaplan

www.flyimc.com


  #16  
Old June 22nd 05, 04:57 PM
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Richard Kaplan wrote:

wrote in message ...

Another big "if" is whether WAAS and LPV will be around 5 years from now.


What makes you think it will not?

--------------------
Richard Kaplan

www.flyimc.com


Read my response right above your message; the one at 6:41. ;-)

  #17  
Old June 22nd 05, 07:15 PM
Ron Natalie
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Brad Salai wrote:
I've been trying to convince my club to consider the 480 over the 530, any
thoughts on that?

If you're going to fly IFR, the 480 is the way to go. While it's (by
history) different than EVERY other Garmin GPS out there, it is more
straight forward for IFR ops.
  #18  
Old June 22nd 05, 09:55 PM
Peter R.
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Tim wrote:

snip
The system is being used by a very small part of general aviation.


Are you saying that WAAS is only used by the aviation community? What
about those who use WAAS-enabled handheld GPS units for boating,
driving, and hiking/backpacking?

Oh, and don't forget the geo-cachers. ;-)


--
Peter

  #19  
Old June 22nd 05, 10:15 PM
iflyatiger
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Please don't flame me for this thought .. As much as I hate it when I see
these bs class action lawsuits were the lawyers make millions and the
consumer gets a $5.00 coupon. I am surprised no one has mentioned legal
action for the falsely advertised waas upgrade. Any thoughts on the merits
of this ? No thoughts needed on lawsuits in general. And yes I do own a 530
and have for at least a few years and have called my dealer to order all the
upgrades I keep hearing about but are never available ( terrain warning,
waas ).

Take care..
JG.



"PPT33R" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently made an inquiry to Garmin regarding their new requirement
that GNS 430/530 owners pre-order the WAAS upgrade prior to November
2005 to guarantee the $1500 price their marketing department has been
stating for the past 2 years...

Keeping in mind the WAAS upgrade for these boxes are already years
overdue, and Garmin does not have much of a track record for meeting
their own schedules. I don't see any guarantee they can make their new
date in late 06. I asked the 'insane' question, "What if Garmin pushes
this date once again and I move far away from the dealer I placed my
upgrade order with?"

A Garmin rep stated I would have to cancel the original order and
forfeit the $1500 upgrade price to whatever the final price turns out
to be...

I am leery of placing an order with this kind of company. I just don't
trust them anymore. They sold the GNS 430/530 as WAAS upgradeable for a
reasonable cost, period. I called Garmin corporate to confirm when I
bought my box. Now years later, constant delays and restrictive terms
and conditions are getting irritating. What kind of company requires a
pre-order of an upgrade promised years ago, that won't be delivered for
at least another year and a half? While my box is out of the aircraft,
will they provide a 'loaner' so I can still use my aircraft, or am I
just SOL until they decide to return my box?

WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE GIVE GARMIN SOME REAL COMPETITION? They really
need to be taken down a peg or two.



  #20  
Old June 23rd 05, 02:50 AM
Matt Barrow
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"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
Brad Salai wrote:
I've been trying to convince my club to consider the 480 over the 530,

any
thoughts on that?

If you're going to fly IFR, the 480 is the way to go. While it's (by
history) different than EVERY other Garmin GPS out there, it is more
straight forward for IFR ops.


I'd like to dump my KLN94 and go to a GPS480 with an AviDyne MX-500. One
problem is the GPS480 does not support curved flight paths (GAMA) that a GPS
430 does.

I wonder if I should go with a dual GPS in the form of a GPS 430/ 480 combo?
Would it work?


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO


 




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