dropped in D

Maule Driver wrote:

I was trying to think through the meaning of 'radar services' and 'flight
following'. I was thinking that you are not bound to maintain a heading or
an altitude while under FF (right?). So that would mean that you can
deviate from your reported heading and altitude and enter Class D without
necessarily notifying the controller.

Sure, you can change heading and altitude without necessarily
notifying the controller, but situational awareness and common
sense do enter into it.

The radar controller will make a decision on whether or not he
needs to coordinate based on your altitude and direction of
flight. If you need to change either or both, and that
change might put you in a surface area your original altitude
and heading would keep you clear of, it may not be a regulatory
requirement to communicate your intentions but it only makes
sense IMO.

The particular situation described is problematic, because the
facility providing radar services terminated them w/out a handoff.
In that circumstance, I personally would probably contact the tower
immediately, including in my call up something like "I had
radar services from XXXX, I assume they coordinated with you".
(because that's what's supposed to happen).

Really puts the focus on situational awareness when that happens!

Well, Steve may be correct that the communication requirements
have been met, but I'd personally contact the tower in those
circs, just in case there was a need to communicate; IME it
takes several minutes to establish communication and radar
contact with a busy approach facility, and I really don't
want to be distracted from keeping a sharp look-out when I'm close
to an airport, either.

Cheers,
Sydney

"Robert Henry" wrote in message
news:57hYa.26627$5f.25359@lakeread05...

14CFR 91.126d as referenced in 14CFR 91.129a?


Note that FAR 91.126(d) also begins with, "Unless otherwise authorized or
required by ATC,..."


§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G
airspace.

(d) Communications with control towers. Unless otherwise authorized or
required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft to, from, through, or on
an airport having an operational control tower unless two-way radio
communications are maintained between that aircraft and the control tower.
Communications must be established prior to 4 nautical miles from the
airport, up to and including 2,500 feet AGL. However, if the aircraft radio
fails in flight, the pilot in command may operate that aircraft and land if
weather conditions are at or above basic VFR weather minimums, visual
contact with the tower is maintained, and a clearance to land is received.
If the aircraft radio fails while in flight under IFR, the pilot must comply
with § 91.185.



According to whom? I see several references to the "ATC facility having
jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area." Can there be more than one
facility with that authority?


VFR towers actually have little authority over Class D airspace, about all
they can do is require VFR aircraft to remain clear of it. Authority and
responsibility for IFR and SVFR operations rests with the overlying Center
or approach control facility, although some of that is often delegated to
the tower.

"Robert Henry" wrote in message
news:bihYa.26631$5f.4102@lakeread05...

Remember, this is not an arrival, but a through flight. Would it be
likely for through IFR traffic to be that low that the controller would
normally provide such coordination for a through IFR flight. I'm
thinking that would be quite unusual.


The lowest practical enroute IFR altitude tends to be the MIA/MVA plus 1000
feet rounded up to the next cardinal altitude. That tends to be more than
2500 AGL and thus above typical Class D airspace.

"Robert Henry" wrote in message
news:4djYa.26675$5f.6442@lakeread05...

Regarding the airspace classifications for IFR, understood. The original
assertion that I responded to was :

Most likely he had already given a call to the class D
tower and coordinated your transition as he would with IFR traffic.

The essence of my point is still valid. How often will a radar controller
coordinate an IFR transition through Class D airspace?


As often as he has an IFR aircraft flying through Class D airspace.

"Robert Henry" wrote in message news:57hYa.26627$5f.25359@lakeread05...
"Sydney Hoeltzli" wrote in message
...

Yes, it does. Why would you think it doesn't?
[14CFR 91.129
does not specify that the pilot must establish or maintain
communications with the control tower, simply with "the ATC
facility providing air traffic services". ]

14CFR 91.126d as referenced in 14CFR 91.129a?

91.126(d) is not referenced from 91.129(a). Rather 91.126 (the whole
section) is referenced from 91.129(a). And it seems that 91.126(a)
indicates that 91.126 is only relevant to persons operating an
aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G area. In
this particular instance, I was not in the vicinity of an airport that
was in a Class G area. The only airport that I was close to was Mc
Entire ANGS which is not in a Class G area (it is in a Class D area).
Therefore I'm thinking that 91.126 has no real relevancy to this
particular instance.

A radar facility
which provides approach services to a class D airport certainly
counts.

According to whom? I see several references to the "ATC facility having
jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area." Can there be more than one
facility with that authority?

This jurisdiction thing seems to be a big whole to me -- the FARs
reference "...the ATC facility having jurisdiction..." but nowhere
does the FAA make it clear to pilots exactly what that means. I
believe this whole facilitated my confusion in the first place.

Arden

Robert Henry wrote:

According to whom? I see several references to the "ATC facility having
jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area." Can there be more than one
facility with that authority?

Of course. If you want to get picky, I understand that all the
controlled airspace in the US is under the jurisdiction of the
ARTCCs, who cede it to various TRACONS and surface areas by LOA
(letters of agreement) which are regularly revised. More to the
point, every day various ATC facilities cede control of aircraft
which are actually within the airspace they control, to other
facilities for various reasons. This simply wouldn't work if
aviation law couldn't accept the concept of more than one facility
with authority over a particular airspace area, provided the
question of who has authority at the moment is properly coordinated.
That's why controllers spend a lot of time on the phone...

But in particular, the radar facility which provides approach
services to a surface area controlled by a VFR tower has to
count as having jurisdiction over that surface area in order
to separate aircraft within it. Just try and get a vector
out of a VFR tower, one with a BRITE....

Cheers,
Sydney