Low cost ADS-B Options

I spent a day at Oshkosh last Monday and had a chance to talk to Trig about their ADS-B plans.

The Trig TT22 Mode S Transponder is currently shipping and supports 1090ES ADS-B Out, if it is connected to an approved WAAS GPS position source. Up to now, approved GPS sources have been quite expensive.

The good news is that around Christmas, Trig is going to start shipping their new, as yet unannounced, TN72 GPS position source. I had a chance to see a prototype. It easily fits in the palm of your hand, weighs about 100 grams, and uses minimal power. While Trig wouldn't commit to a price, the people I talked to said that the unit would sell for less than $600.

Couple this with an ADS-B receiver ($500 - $850), an iPhone, iPad, or Android device, and a low cost app like Foreflight, etc., and you will have a full blown collision avoidance system that will accurately display and warn you about all other ADS-B and/or Transponder equipped aircraft in your vicinity. In addition you will be visible to all TCAS equipped commercial aircraft.

Trig indicated that their distributors have significant discounts available of groups and clubs that organize a volume purchase.

This is a great solution for glider pilots who fly near metropolitan airports and are mainly concerned about collision threats with other GA or commercial aircraft.

Get your checkbooks ready.

Yeah!!!!

Interesting. This will be the first competition for FLARM Technology. I wonder if they will adjust their princely pricing to keep their anti-collision market share. Would this work in an area that is not within ground ADS-B coverage?

Yippee!!!

Where do I get in line? I've already got the TT22 and there's plenty of
room in the Stemme to install the TN72. Now I just have to figure out
how to mount the Nexus 7 running Avare since I've used up my two good
spots for Dell Streaks (one for me and one for Sweetie Pie). Perhaps I
can remove the Garmin 396 in the panel and install the Nexus there in a
horizontal position. I can mount the Black Berry Pi and two antennae
with Velcro... Voila! A complete system!

On 7/29/2016 11:22 PM, Mike Schumann wrote:
I spent a day at Oshkosh last Monday and had a chance to talk to Trig about their ADS-B plans.

The Trig TT22 Mode S Transponder is currently shipping and supports 1090ES ADS-B Out, if it is connected to an approved WAAS GPS position source. Up to now, approved GPS sources have been quite expensive.

The good news is that around Christmas, Trig is going to start shipping their new, as yet unannounced, TN72 GPS position source. I had a chance to see a prototype. It easily fits in the palm of your hand, weighs about 100 grams, and uses minimal power. While Trig wouldn't commit to a price, the people I talked to said that the unit would sell for less than $600.

Couple this with an ADS-B receiver ($500 - $850), an iPhone, iPad, or Android device, and a low cost app like Foreflight, etc., and you will have a full blown collision avoidance system that will accurately display and warn you about all other ADS-B and/or Transponder equipped aircraft in your vicinity. In addition you will be visible to all TCAS equipped commercial aircraft.

Trig indicated that their distributors have significant discounts available of groups and clubs that organize a volume purchase.

This is a great solution for glider pilots who fly near metropolitan airports and are mainly concerned about collision threats with other GA or commercial aircraft.

Get your checkbooks ready.

--
Dan, 5J

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 1:22:22 AM UTC-4, Mike Schumann wrote:
I spent a day at Oshkosh last Monday and had a chance to talk to Trig about their ADS-B plans.

The Trig TT22 Mode S Transponder is currently shipping and supports 1090ES ADS-B Out, if it is connected to an approved WAAS GPS position source. Up to now, approved GPS sources have been quite expensive.

The good news is that around Christmas, Trig is going to start shipping their new, as yet unannounced, TN72 GPS position source. I had a chance to see a prototype. It easily fits in the palm of your hand, weighs about 100 grams, and uses minimal power. While Trig wouldn't commit to a price, the people I talked to said that the unit would sell for less than $600.

Couple this with an ADS-B receiver ($500 - $850), an iPhone, iPad, or Android device, and a low cost app like Foreflight, etc., and you will have a full blown collision avoidance system that will accurately display and warn you about all other ADS-B and/or Transponder equipped aircraft in your vicinity. In addition you will be visible to all TCAS equipped commercial aircraft.

Trig indicated that their distributors have significant discounts available of groups and clubs that organize a volume purchase.

This is a great solution for glider pilots who fly near metropolitan airports and are mainly concerned about collision threats with other GA or commercial aircraft.

Get your checkbooks ready.

A word of caution. I equipped my new ASH-31 Mi with ADS-B out. I spent a lot of money to find a combination of a transponder, position source and antenna that would work in a glider. I can tell you that $3500 position source with recommended antenna would not keep the GPS lock during circling with bank angel more or equal to 40 deg. For a motor-glider there is added problem with a pylon shading the antenna, during engine run. Finding a good place for an antenna is almost impossible.

I succeeded but with lots of frustration and only because my glider is experimental.

Good information but I don't see much need for concern for me for the
following reasons:

Entering a thermal, I should already have a pretty good idea of local
traffic from previous glances at the display. It's not likely that
someone will penetrate my airspace during the minute or three that I'm
climbing but I do recognize the possibility and will continue to keep my
head on a swivel.

The GPS antenna will likely be mounted at the top of the instrument
panel (below the instrument cowl as the other two GPS antennae are
located). There's no engine pylon in a Stemme. ;-)

The Stratux will have its two antennae mounted on opposite sides of the
instrument cowl towards the forward edge of the canopy. There are no
obstructions above, but we'll see how that works out receiving signals
from ground stations due to the carbon fuselage.

There will always be concerns about non-ADSB-out equipped aircraft but
those numbers should dwindle as time marches on, especially in the high
western deserts.

I'm pretty excited about this.

On 7/30/2016 12:07 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
A word of caution. I equipped my new ASH-31 Mi with ADS-B out. I spent a lot of money to find a combination of a transponder, position source and antenna that would work in a glider. I can tell you that $3500 position source with recommended antenna would not keep the GPS lock during circling with bank angel more or equal to 40 deg. For a motor-glider there is added problem with a pylon shading the antenna, during engine run. Finding a good place for an antenna is almost impossible.

I succeeded but with lots of frustration and only because my glider is experimental.

--
Dan, 5J

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 2:34:22 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Good information but I don't see much need for concern for me for the
following reasons:

Entering a thermal, I should already have a pretty good idea of local
traffic from previous glances at the display. It's not likely that
someone will penetrate my airspace during the minute or three that I'm
climbing but I do recognize the possibility and will continue to keep my
head on a swivel.

The GPS antenna will likely be mounted at the top of the instrument
panel (below the instrument cowl as the other two GPS antennae are
located). There's no engine pylon in a Stemme. ;-)

The Stratux will have its two antennae mounted on opposite sides of the
instrument cowl towards the forward edge of the canopy. There are no
obstructions above, but we'll see how that works out receiving signals
from ground stations due to the carbon fuselage.

There will always be concerns about non-ADSB-out equipped aircraft but
those numbers should dwindle as time marches on, especially in the high
western deserts.

I'm pretty excited about this.

On 7/30/2016 12:07 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
A word of caution. I equipped my new ASH-31 Mi with ADS-B out. I spent a lot of money to find a combination of a transponder, position source and antenna that would work in a glider. I can tell you that $3500 position source with recommended antenna would not keep the GPS lock during circling with bank angel more or equal to 40 deg. For a motor-glider there is added problem with a pylon shading the antenna, during engine run. Finding a good place for an antenna is almost impossible.

I succeeded but with lots of frustration and only because my glider is experimental.

--
Dan, 5J

If you keep loosing signal rest assured FAA will send you a letter of non-compliance.

Thanks again, Andrzej.

I forgot to mention that my transponder antenna is on the underside of
the propeller dome and so I shouldn't have problems with shadowing from
the fuselage. My concern was with the "In" portion of the ADS-B system
as received by the Stratux with dual antennae on the glare shield. I
flew that system in my Pipistrel Sinus (still for sale, BTW) and it
seemed to work well picking up replies to "Out" equipped aircraft.
Also, during my ferry flight from Mexico to Arizona, my instructor had a
Stratus and iPad in his lap and we always had weather information
available so maybe there won't be a problem with my seeing ADS-B In
transmissions. Time will tell, and if the Stratux doesn't work, then
there are commercial systems to look at.


On 7/30/2016 4:23 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
If you keep loosing signal rest assured FAA will send you a letter of non-compliance.

--
Dan, 5J

On Sunday, July 31, 2016 at 11:51:41 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks again, Andrzej.

I forgot to mention that my transponder antenna is on the underside of
the propeller dome and so I shouldn't have problems with shadowing from
the fuselage. My concern was with the "In" portion of the ADS-B system
as received by the Stratux with dual antennae on the glare shield. I
flew that system in my Pipistrel Sinus (still for sale, BTW) and it
seemed to work well picking up replies to "Out" equipped aircraft.
Also, during my ferry flight from Mexico to Arizona, my instructor had a
Stratus and iPad in his lap and we always had weather information
available so maybe there won't be a problem with my seeing ADS-B In
transmissions. Time will tell, and if the Stratux doesn't work, then
there are commercial systems to look at.


On 7/30/2016 4:23 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
If you keep loosing signal rest assured FAA will send you a letter of non-compliance.

--
Dan, 5J

I also have ADS-B in in addition to PF that works very well, considering I have ADS-B out. I get all traffic now.

A couple of months ago while flying in the North East I had an encounter with a fast moving airplane that was on a collision course with me. Stratus 2S with ForeFlight alerted me to the conflicting traffic while my PowerFlarm was completely silent, not even a warning about transponder equipped traffic. I initially did not see the conflicting traffic, even though I had it on my screen for at least 30 seconds. I finally spotted the traffic when it was really close and exactly at my altitude. That day I figured all the frustration finally paid off.

In regards to shadowing I was not talking about transponder antenna but the GPS antenna for a position source. The position sources for ADS-B are different beasts comparing to our gliding GPS devices that seem to give position at all times without issues, even banking at 45 deg, but do not meet other requirements for ADS-B position sources.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm... Maybe a gimbal (ala ship's compass) upon which to mount
the position source antenna. Just kidding.

Glad you spotted that conflict aircraft, but a question: Why not take
mild corrective action early during the encounter saving that "Oh, Sh!t"
moment?

On 7/31/2016 10:25 AM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Sunday, July 31, 2016 at 11:51:41 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks again, Andrzej.

I forgot to mention that my transponder antenna is on the underside of
the propeller dome and so I shouldn't have problems with shadowing from
the fuselage. My concern was with the "In" portion of the ADS-B system
as received by the Stratux with dual antennae on the glare shield. I
flew that system in my Pipistrel Sinus (still for sale, BTW) and it
seemed to work well picking up replies to "Out" equipped aircraft.
Also, during my ferry flight from Mexico to Arizona, my instructor had a
Stratus and iPad in his lap and we always had weather information
available so maybe there won't be a problem with my seeing ADS-B In
transmissions. Time will tell, and if the Stratux doesn't work, then
there are commercial systems to look at.


On 7/30/2016 4:23 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
If you keep loosing signal rest assured FAA will send you a letter of non-compliance.
--
Dan, 5J
I also have ADS-B in in addition to PF that works very well, considering I have ADS-B out. I get all traffic now.

A couple of months ago while flying in the North East I had an encounter with a fast moving airplane that was on a collision course with me. Stratus 2S with ForeFlight alerted me to the conflicting traffic while my PowerFlarm was completely silent, not even a warning about transponder equipped traffic. I initially did not see the conflicting traffic, even though I had it on my screen for at least 30 seconds. I finally spotted the traffic when it was really close and exactly at my altitude. That day I figured all the frustration finally paid off.

In regards to shadowing I was not talking about transponder antenna but the GPS antenna for a position source. The position sources for ADS-B are different beasts comparing to our gliding GPS devices that seem to give position at all times without issues, even banking at 45 deg, but do not meet other requirements for ADS-B position sources.


--
Dan, 5J