Pilot shot in head

Matt Barrow wrote:

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...

I believe Mr Whiting is speaking of a standard issue 1911 Colt .45. Which
does have an awful pattern even at 50 yards.


Mine is a Springfield Armory, with a bit of trigger work and my onw reloads.
At 50 yards through a Ransom rest it shoots about a 4-5" group. The load I
use has been tweaked for this particular gun and it's had a couple thousand
rounds through it.

Mine is a Colt (I believe series 70, but can't remember for sure) that
is factory stock and it only groups 3-4" at 25 yards off a sandbag (I
don't have access to a machine rest. I'd say I could hit a 12" pie
plate at 100 yards maybe 50% of the time if I was shooting off a
sandbag. Shooting off-hand would probably lower than to less than 25%
of the time. That was my point.

My Super Blackhawk is much more accurate and will group about 2" at 25
yards, but even that would have a pretty low hit rate at 100 yards,
especially shooting off-hand and at a 12" target moving at 80 MPH or more!



There are some mods that can be
done, as in with some of the new modified 1911's. Which very few of those
are "real" 1911's, but aftermarket copies.


The term "1911" is for any version of the original J.M. Borwning design.

True, but very few short of match tuned will shoot less than 12" at 100
yards with factory ammo.



A Kimber 1911 come to mind. Which
is a very nice weapon with alot better patterns than it's old standard US
military version. Just a good old Colt .45! Great for close combat, but

not

a reach out and touch someone kind of weapon.


Which is the point I made about a .44 Mag being much better at 100 yards and
further.

Could I hit a Cessna 150 at 100 yards? Sure. Every time? Probably not.

The point wasn't to hit a 150, but to hit something the size of a
pilot's head! Hitting a 150 that was sitting still would be trivial.
Hitting one that was moving at 80 MPH would be tougher, but not
impossible to be sure. To consisently hit a spot the size of a human
head, would be nigh on impossible.


Matt

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
A four inch group with a 1911 .45 is not bad at all


My Wilson Combat KZ45 is even better, but three time the price.


Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
I believe Mr Whiting is speaking of a standard issue 1911 Colt .45.
Which
does have an awful pattern even at 50 yards.

Mine is a Springfield Armory, with a bit of trigger work and my onw
reloads.
At 50 yards through a Ransom rest it shoots about a 4-5" group. The load
I
use has been tweaked for this particular gun and it's had a couple
thousand
rounds through it.

There are some mods that can be
done, as in with some of the new modified 1911's. Which very few of
those
are "real" 1911's, but aftermarket copies.

The term "1911" is for any version of the original J.M. Borwning design.

A Kimber 1911 come to mind. Which
is a very nice weapon with alot better patterns than it's old standard
US
military version. Just a good old Colt .45! Great for close combat, but
not
a reach out and touch someone kind of weapon.

Which is the point I made about a .44 Mag being much better at 100 yards
and
further.

Could I hit a Cessna 150 at 100 yards? Sure. Every time? Probably not.

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Oh and I almost forgot if you have an original Springfield 1911 in decent
shape she is worth a nice chunk of change

Nah, this is a new model, only about three years old.

My kid picked up an OLD Remington-Rand 1911 (WW2 surplus ??) for $50, and
even with
the crappy trigger he can do amazing things. (His old man taught him well
:~)

Teaching your son is very cool! I give mine pointers all the time , mostly
in rifles. But he is getting the handgun itch pretty bad. He aspires to be a
Marine Sniper...so I have to pass on what I can as an old coach. Hope he
takes it all in , may save his life one day.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...

I believe Mr Whiting is speaking of a standard issue 1911 Colt .45.
Which
does have an awful pattern even at 50 yards.


Mine is a Springfield Armory, with a bit of trigger work and my onw
reloads.
At 50 yards through a Ransom rest it shoots about a 4-5" group. The load
I
use has been tweaked for this particular gun and it's had a couple
thousand
rounds through it.

Mine is a Colt (I believe series 70, but can't remember for sure) that
is factory stock and it only groups 3-4" at 25 yards off a sandbag (I
don't have access to a machine rest. I'd say I could hit a 12" pie
plate at 100 yards maybe 50% of the time if I was shooting off a
sandbag. Shooting off-hand would probably lower than to less than 25%
of the time. That was my point.

I shoot offhand, but brace against the support beams for the roof cover at
our range. I never could get comfortable shooting a pistol off sandbags.
Rifles, though, are a different story.

My Super Blackhawk is much more accurate and will group about 2" at 25
yards, but even that would have a pretty low hit rate at 100 yards,
especially shooting off-hand and at a 12" target moving at 80 MPH or more!

I have a Wilson Combat KZ45 which is even more accurate, but much more
expensive. Also, you probably won't get optimal accuracy with factory ammo.
They'll be good, but not your smallest groups.

There are some mods that can be
done, as in with some of the new modified 1911's. Which very few of
those
are "real" 1911's, but aftermarket copies.


The term "1911" is for any version of the original J.M. Borwning design.

True, but very few short of match tuned will shoot less than 12" at 100
yards with factory ammo.

I haven't bought factory ammo (other than for carry/defense, or .22's) in
probably 30 years. My load of choice is 5.4grains of WW-231 behind a Montana
Gold 200gr JHP, using WW military match brass.

A Kimber 1911 come to mind. Which
is a very nice weapon with alot better patterns than it's old standard
US
military version. Just a good old Colt .45! Great for close combat, but

not

a reach out and touch someone kind of weapon.


Which is the point I made about a .44 Mag being much better at 100 yards
and
further.

Could I hit a Cessna 150 at 100 yards? Sure. Every time? Probably not.

The point wasn't to hit a 150, but to hit something the size of a
pilot's head!

I doubt the dirtbag was aiming for a head shot; hitting the plane was
intentional/basic skill, hitting the guy in the head was coincidental.

Hitting a 150 that was sitting still would be trivial.
Hitting one that was moving at 80 MPH would be tougher, but not
impossible to be sure. To consisently hit a spot the size of a human
head, would be nigh on impossible.

Like I said, I doubt he was trying for a head shot.

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Teaching your son is very cool! I give mine pointers all the time , mostly
in rifles. But he is getting the handgun itch pretty bad. He aspires to be
a
Marine Sniper...so I have to pass on what I can as an old coach. Hope he
takes it all in , may save his life one day.

I have two boys and a girl and all started shooting before they were seven
years old. They learned discipline, self-control, hand-eye coordination,
responsibility, etc.

All three took to different aspects and none really do they shooing sports,
but my oldest, Michael, (25 on May 25th, a Navy Lt(jg)) is awesome with a
rifle. My #2 son (23) does things with a pistol makes me drool. My daughter
(20) doesn't shoot unless I take her, but she's incredible at Sporting
Clays. Her reflexes are phenomenal. I bought her a Beretta AL-391 20ga Youth
model for her 18th birthday, but she won't clean it (manicure, ya' know),
nor will she run the reloader...ah, women. :~)

On 6 May 2005 11:36:15 -0700, "John Galban"
wrote:


Amazing! Hitting a target in a moving airplane at several hundred
feet with a pistol! The odds are pretty slim. Military pilots call
that the "Golden BB". That one lucky small arms shot that, totally by
chance, ends up occupying the same area of space as the plane.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

When I was flying skydivers, I would have to divert to Hazel Green
Alabama to get fuel.

One fine day, the pay phone rang and I answered it. There was an
irate guy who said that the crop duster was making too much noise and
that he was going to shoot him down.

Youy've got to realize that times were simpler back then. So I asked
him to leave his name and phone number, and I would tell the crop
duster pilot to give him a call when he got back. (I was tapping my
forefinger on the side of my head thinking, boy you sure are smart).

Well, I waited, and he landed, so I went to tell him about the phone
call.

He showed me a patch on the wing where a bullet had gone through.

I guess today, I would have called the Sheriff.

And I need to say again that times really were different back then.

Mike Weller