asymetric warfare

ess (phil hunt) wrote:

:On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:12:47 GMT, Thomas J. Paladino Jr. wrote:
:
:LOL.... now you're talking about *multiple* lauch & storage facilities,
:
:Launch facility = a land rover and trailer

Ok, so now you're trying to coordinate a thousand vehicles.

:storage facility = any building will do

Where they will eventually be found, since you need a big enough door
to get your land rover and trailer through

:for
:potentially 500-1000+ missiles, all cooridinated with each other to hit the
:same small targets *simultaneously*?
:
:co-ordination = radio

In which case we're going to KNOW when you're spooling up to shoot and
you'll be dead before everybody gets rolled out and ready.

:The infrastructure and technology for
:that undertaking would be even more cost prohibitive, but just as futile.
:Even if they were somehow built and tested (extraordinarily unlikely);
:again, what would stop *all* of these facilities from being taken out in the
:first 10 seconds of the war?
:
:Knowing where they are?

You'd be surprised.

id the USA knock out all Iraqu tanks at the start of the 2003 or
:1991 wars? No, it did not, unlike in your worthless comtemptable
:idiot strawman scenario. Did the USA knock out all Serbian tanks in
:the Kosovo war? they didn't in the whole war, let alone the first
:ten minutes.
:
:Face it, this is a bad idea.
:
:Face it, you're an idiot bull****ter.

Now THERE is a telling response. Ok, after that magnificent
exposition of technological prowess, I'm sure we're all convinced now
that your magical $10k cruise missile is perfectly workable and we're
ready to admit defeat.

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out....

--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
What would be sensible strategies/weapons for a middle-ranking
country to employ if it thought it is likely to be involved in a war
against the USA or other Western countries, say in the next 10
years?


Instead of trying to build *up* to defeat a western/Nato/US opponent, the
only possible solution would be to build *down*, and grow self aware,
mobile, small scale explosives.

A 20 year old with a backpack full of C-4, as is done now.

Pete

Pete wrote:

Instead of trying to build *up* to defeat a western/Nato/US opponent, the
only possible solution would be to build *down*, and grow self aware,
mobile, small scale explosives.

A 20 year old with a backpack full of C-4, as is done now.

Pete

Which is what I would suggest. No country could currently defeat the USA in a
stand-up fight. So disperse your army globally and take out US-interest soft
targets: embassies, companies, tourists, registered shipping, anything that
flies a US flag.

The losses would be sickening, and it makes me nauseous to think about the
scenario. Especially if army elements managed to get on US soil.

Simon Morden
--
__________________________________________________ ______
Visit the Book of Morden at http://www.bookofmorden.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
*Thy Kingdom Come - a brief history of Armageddon* out now from Lone Wolf

In article ,
Simon Morden wrote:

Which is what I would suggest. No country could currently defeat the USA in a
stand-up fight. So disperse your army globally and take out US-interest soft
targets: embassies, companies, tourists, registered shipping, anything that
flies a US flag.

The losses would be sickening, and it makes me nauseous to think about the
scenario. Especially if army elements managed to get on US soil.

Well, don't forget that only a very tiny percentage of any regular army
will be composed of people fanatical enough to become suicide bombers.
Your four-million strong Elbonian People's Happy Army will turn into a
handful of suicide bombers and a whole bunch of deserters if you tried
that strategy. Not to say it may not be the best use of that army, but I
don't think it would be that effective.

In rec.arts.sf.science Michael Ash wrote:
In article ,
Simon Morden wrote:

Which is what I would suggest. No country could currently defeat the USA in a
stand-up fight. So disperse your army globally and take out US-interest soft
targets: embassies, companies, tourists, registered shipping, anything that
flies a US flag.

The losses would be sickening, and it makes me nauseous to think about the
scenario. Especially if army elements managed to get on US soil.

Well, don't forget that only a very tiny percentage of any regular army
will be composed of people fanatical enough to become suicide bombers.
Your four-million strong Elbonian People's Happy Army will turn into a
handful of suicide bombers and a whole bunch of deserters if you tried
that strategy. Not to say it may not be the best use of that army, but I
don't think it would be that effective.

Which is why the ideal complement to this strategy would be the intensive
development of a really effective brainwashing technology. Once your amoral
dictatorship has the ability to really deeply convince people on a wholesale
basis that the regime is worth dying for, then you're in business. Especially
since this will have the useful side benefit of greatly improving your hold
on power with the general populace, if you can apply similar technology to
them as well.

This suggests that, rather than worrying over a few piddly little nukes or
chemical weapons (which are not really useful for aggression by a small country
anyway, since they could never be actually used against any
western nation without inviting the absolute destruction of the user),
we should really be paying a lot of attention to countries that are
spending a lot of effort on making advances in brainwashing methods and
techniques.

--
Tim Eisele

On 18 Dec 2003 08:31:14 -0500, Timothy Eisele wrote:

In rec.arts.sf.science Michael Ash wrote:
In article ,
Simon Morden wrote:

Which is what I would suggest. No country could currently defeat the USA in a
stand-up fight. So disperse your army globally and take out US-interest soft
targets: embassies, companies, tourists, registered shipping, anything that
flies a US flag.

The losses would be sickening, and it makes me nauseous to think about the
scenario. Especially if army elements managed to get on US soil.

Well, don't forget that only a very tiny percentage of any regular army
will be composed of people fanatical enough to become suicide bombers.
Your four-million strong Elbonian People's Happy Army will turn into a
handful of suicide bombers and a whole bunch of deserters if you tried
that strategy. Not to say it may not be the best use of that army, but I
don't think it would be that effective.

Which is why the ideal complement to this strategy would be the intensive
development of a really effective brainwashing technology. Once your amoral
dictatorship has the ability to really deeply convince people on a wholesale
basis that the regime is worth dying for, then you're in business. Especially
since this will have the useful side benefit of greatly improving your hold
on power with the general populace, if you can apply similar technology to
them as well.

This suggests that, rather than worrying over a few piddly little nukes or
chemical weapons (which are not really useful for aggression by a small country
anyway, since they could never be actually used against any
western nation without inviting the absolute destruction of the user),
we should really be paying a lot of attention to countries that are
spending a lot of effort on making advances in brainwashing methods and
techniques.

This has already been done. They call it "religion".

Al Minyard

In article ,
Timothy Eisele wrote:

In rec.arts.sf.science Michael Ash wrote:
Well, don't forget that only a very tiny percentage of any regular army
will be composed of people fanatical enough to become suicide bombers.
Your four-million strong Elbonian People's Happy Army will turn into a
handful of suicide bombers and a whole bunch of deserters if you tried
that strategy. Not to say it may not be the best use of that army, but I
don't think it would be that effective.

Which is why the ideal complement to this strategy would be the intensive
development of a really effective brainwashing technology. Once your amoral
dictatorship has the ability to really deeply convince people on a wholesale
basis that the regime is worth dying for, then you're in business.
Especially
since this will have the useful side benefit of greatly improving your hold
on power with the general populace, if you can apply similar technology to
them as well.

Is 'brainwashing technology' somehow not in the same realm of fantasy as
'magic fairy dust'? I was under the impression that it was something you
only found in bad novels and movies.

Michael Ash wrote:

Well, don't forget that only a very tiny percentage of any regular army
will be composed of people fanatical enough to become suicide bombers.
Your four-million strong Elbonian People's Happy Army will turn into a
handful of suicide bombers and a whole bunch of deserters if you tried
that strategy. Not to say it may not be the best use of that army, but I
don't think it would be that effective.

Of course. I 've no idea of your background, but AFAIK suicide terrorism is very
much a minority sport. November 17, IRA, INLA, Bader-Minhoff, and most of the
worlds' terrorist/ex-terrorist organisations much rather killed their 'enemies'
than themselves. A bombing campaign by a cell is a much better use of human
resources.

If the Elbonians weren't a bunch of brainwashed dictator-run conscripts, but a
professional nationalist army who were dedicated to supporting their government
against external aggressors, who saw the futility of getting mown down by US
airpower, who absconded with man-pack SAMs and explosives and decided to take the
fight to the capitalist pigs foam slaver rant

The question was how would a middling country take on a super power. There's no
reason to assume the 'middling country' is begging to be invaded, its army complete
pants, and that its citizens don't love their country as much as you love yours.


Simon Morden
--
__________________________________________________ ______
Visit the Book of Morden at http://www.bookofmorden.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
*Thy Kingdom Come - a brief history of Armageddon* out now from Lone Wolf

In article ,
Simon Morden wrote:

Michael Ash wrote:

Well, don't forget that only a very tiny percentage of any regular army
will be composed of people fanatical enough to become suicide bombers.
Your four-million strong Elbonian People's Happy Army will turn into a
handful of suicide bombers and a whole bunch of deserters if you tried
that strategy. Not to say it may not be the best use of that army, but I
don't think it would be that effective.

Of course. I 've no idea of your background, but AFAIK suicide terrorism is
very
much a minority sport. November 17, IRA, INLA, Bader-Minhoff, and most of the
worlds' terrorist/ex-terrorist organisations much rather killed their
'enemies'
than themselves. A bombing campaign by a cell is a much better use of human
resources.

My background isn't much. The closest I've come to any experience in
this area is visiting Israel smack in the middle of the two week
ceasefire they had in June of 2001.

In any case, I fully believe you. My statement was mostly CYA. I don't
think that making everybody be a suicide bomber is terribly effective,
but I don't know enough to rule it out. I do recall thinking, during the
fall of Iraq and the immediate aftermath, that a trained monkey could
probably do a better job of defending that country. Take all of those
army units that got surrounded/wiped out/whatever and simply distribute
them throughout the cities. Give each one a rifle, give RPGs to as many
as you can. Tell them to wait in a building by the window. When they see
Americans, shoot (at) them. As it was, I suppose the high ranks were too
busy trying to get out of harm's way with as much cash as possible to
put any effort into making life hard on the US Army.

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:09:48 +0100, Michael Ash wrote:

Well, don't forget that only a very tiny percentage of any regular army
will be composed of people fanatical enough to become suicide bombers.
Your four-million strong Elbonian People's Happy Army will turn into a
handful of suicide bombers and a whole bunch of deserters if you tried
that strategy. Not to say it may not be the best use of that army, but I
don't think it would be that effective.

Indeed. Developing and caching weapons that allow people to be
guerrillas with reduced risk to themselves (such as time-delayed
mortars) would seem an obvious thing to do.

--
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